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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Avebury » pagan persecution at avebury. |
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Nov 11, 2003, 20:37
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May I direct you to the initial posting. Here is a chunk of it. "The main eight pagan festivals and all of the full moons are observed at the stones, so consequently this does require us parking our vehicles (for most of us our homes) in the tourists car park. Pagans have been parking in this car park overnight for many years so that they can safely enjoy and observe their religious celebrations. This has never been allowed by the National trust or the parish council but due to the goodwill of all parties no action has ever been taken. This has recently changed, the trust has began to issues prosecution notices to any vehicle parked over night." Not about parking? Who doesn't read too well?
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Monganaut 2382 posts |
Nov 11, 2003, 20:41
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"We really feel that this is an infringement on our right to religious ceremonies and the right to park our homes safely (could this be be a case of indirect discrimination?)" Believe this was the gist of the argument, well it was the first post anyhow...how's that about fuckin' camping. Trust you f**kwits to pick up an argument half way through. So, your a fully paid up member of the pentagram swinging society are you (of coarse this is a shot in the dark...bit like your cause. I've no idea what your understanding of 'paganism' is) ??...Guess ya 'forebears had a hard time during the 'burning times' then didn't they. Tusk!! and there i was thinking that pagans gave a fuck about the environment, how wrong i was. So it's all about self interest at the end of the day. You can't do what you want to do cos' a bunch of 'locals' who have to live in the area want to piss on your parade. That makes it an 'infringement of your right to worship' in whichever way you decide to manifest that, as you obviously don't have a 'theology/theocriscy' to govern your ritual practices, you already said it's 'your interpretation'..so how does that make it a religion? If i walked down the road with me winky out, who's to say I'm wrong...I'm just worshippin' at the Temple of Monganaut. S'all bullshit mate. Last time i looked Avebury wasn't in the near East, so i guess your all lucked out on the use of planes. Though I'm sure a broomstick would fit the bill nicely! Hey, and i thought the idea of paganism was to worship 'local dieties'..y'know, like your 'local' stone circle, burial chamber, well, shrine, unusal rocky outcrop etc..,Why travel to Avebury to worship, if your in that part of the country. Last time i looked, the landscape was riddled with beautiful ancient monuments, far from the interuptions of 'everyday' people. Though i guess it's the 'limelight' your after...look at me mom. I'm weird. Better get a hobby mate...trainspottin' sounds right up your street. So, whatter you pagans get up too then?? i might wanna side with the locals after all ; )
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freeavebury 22 posts |
Nov 11, 2003, 21:03
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ok, this is for the benefit of latecomers, the undecided and the plain confused! A couple of simple questions: 1/ Do you ever go to a special place to do any form of celebration or ceremony? OR 2/ Do you ever go to Avebury during nightime hours (which in Winter is afer 4.00 in the afternoon? - for any reason at all? If the answer to either of these questions is yes, read on. Otherwise, turn off the computer, open the book, turn on the CD, and fantasise about going to a real place and meeting real people. Otherwise... what we are trying to do does affect YOU! All we are trying to do is secure reasonable access to avebury circle. I assume that wherever you go, at some point you probably use motorised transport, be it coach, car share, motorbike or whatever. You must leave these vehicles somewhere, ie an existing car park. Due to the fact that many of the ceremonies we attend are in the dark (eg some full moons, lunar eclipses etc), we need to be in the circle vicinity during these hours. Avebury village is surrounded by yellow lines, and there is a ban on tourist parking in the village. Therefore the existing car park is our only option and has been used for many years. If you answered yes to the second question, then this ban means YOU will not be able to access the circle legally. There is very little public transport, and none at night. Walking is not an option for many as many visitors are disabled. Do you live nearby and walk (perhaps a dog?) in the circle? If yes, then this affects YOU as well! Obviously the exact nature of our claim or protest will be decided by our legal representatives, depending on the best chance of winning! This is because this ban may potentially affect many people, and especially those wishing reasonable access to their place of worship (dont forget Paganism is now a recognised religion). Hope this clarifies a few things this thread will be locked tomorrow, updates will appear on a new thread, and our website freeavebury www.freeavebury.org.uk [email protected]
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TIG 7 posts |
Nov 11, 2003, 21:07
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The Bylaw they are exercising this under and the precedent set in court is covered in post number 2, here goes my cut and paste >(could this be be a case of indirect discrimination?) No, the NT bye laws say no camping and a court case in 2002 allowed the NT the right to stop anyone camping within the WHS, thanks to one Mr Dobney who failed to turn up in the county court to challenge the case. If your intellect allowed you to follow the story with a little understanding you would realise that these vehicles are being parked with the intention to use them as a mobile home or to allow others to erect tents transported in the vehicles this IS Camping Camp: [n] temporary lodgings in the country for travellers or vacationers For someone with such a high opinion it is nice to see you have an inversely proportionate intellectual capacity.
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Monganaut 2382 posts |
Nov 11, 2003, 21:22
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Yup That's me. Wow, you mean that if they have to park their homes, Thatcher didn't manage to obliterate the travellers ,I'm impressed!! Where do they empty their doo doo though?? You still haven't told me what you'payagains' get up to. Guess all those 'earth powers' have fogged your ability to communicate. Ooh, forgot, you don't give a shit about the earth, sos!. Hmmm..does that mean that the implied 'earth powers' that are being beamed in from farst Plaedies or whereevr are really down to Orange, O2, Vodaphone or whoever. Or maybe it's all that shortwave EM from Twighford Down frying your already acid fried brains. You know what the Pistols espoused...never trust a hippie!!
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Grendel 317 posts |
Nov 11, 2003, 21:25
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Without wishing to be picky I notice you have added the disabled to your argument about parking. Under the orange/blue badge scheme (or whatever it is) aren't the disabled exempt form parking restrictions for limited periods (upto 3 hours?) and can therefore - without causing an obstruction - park on double yellows? One thing that strikes me is that if prehistoric man hadn't wanted to take that risk of leaving his home to make the pilgrimage to Avebury (and it was a big risk potentially) then the circle-henge would not have been built. Then there would have been no site to worship at. Although digging is restricted I'd put good money on Pitts not finding a Neolithic carpark. G
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Grendel 317 posts |
Nov 11, 2003, 21:31
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Without wishing to be picky I notice you have added the disabled to your argument about parking. Under the orange/blue badge scheme (or whatever it is) aren't the disabled exempt form parking restrictions for limited periods (upto 3 hours?) and can therefore - without causing an obstruction - park on double yellows? One thing that strikes me is that if prehistoric man hadn't wanted to take that risk of leaving his home to make the pilgrimage to Avebury (and it was a big risk potentially) then the circle-henge would not have been built. Then there would have been no site to worship at. Although digging is restricted I'd put good money on Pitts not finding a Neolithic carpark. G
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morfe 2992 posts |
Nov 11, 2003, 21:42
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I was entitled to an orange badge in the UK, it means you can park on double yellows. It doesn't as far as I know mean you can stay overnight in yr disabled vehicle. This whole argument is getting very silly and divisive. Avebury is becoming a sounding ground for 'my rights are more important than yr rights' on both sides, when in reality, what is required is a campsite nr Avebury, preferably nearer than six miles, yet six miles would make a fine pilgrimage also. I celebrate/honour/enjoy the journey as part of the experience, and I hate seeing the Stonehenge car park, and the Avebury car park. But that's the way it is. When I was severely impaired (walking ability) I would have understood my friends wanting to walk, and waited at the circle for them. Harmony in all things? Why not begin a lobby/fund/campaign for a campsite nearer Avebury, I'm sure many people would be sympathetic that cause, it would aslo be a good business idea, like the campsite at Glastonbury Tor. With so-called paganism growing, it surely is worth honouring the ancient custom of de-centralised Mother-Earth Worship, before we get the stooopid Mecca-effect and the shadow of fundamentalism presiding over the ceremony. No, I'M the real PAGAN!! ARghya!!
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pure joy 334 posts |
Nov 11, 2003, 21:51
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Why don't you put us all out of misery and lock it now. 100 posts and very little progress.
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Nov 11, 2003, 22:50
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"This whole argument is getting very silly and divisive. Avebury is becoming a sounding ground for 'my rights are more important than yr rights' on both sides ..." Actually my point of access to all encompasses their rights. Their arguement excludes my rights. Thank you for your time :-)
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