Wotan
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Re: LOL!
Sep 17, 2003, 10:46
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hic!
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GordonP
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Re: Do we need ropes?
Sep 17, 2003, 11:13
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No need to move the fulcrum point, as the stone is levered up less leverage is required for each stroke, so slide the lever further down the stone with each lift. The fulcrum point remains the same and the angle remains the same.
Just to prove to myself that I too am remaining open minded, I've just been out on the lawn testing the long pole idea. I used a scale model real stone 1in to the ft, a 40in dowel, some string, 2 dining forks, assorted heavy hand tools and Eileens prized hanging basket.
My report: At this scale it works like a dream.
Do I like it? No it just don't feel right, I don't think that's how it was done, levers barely figure at all, the people who built Stonehenge were like me, a bit simple.
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GordonP
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Re: Eh?
Sep 17, 2003, 11:17
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owt ul do!
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Steve Gray
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Re: Do we need ropes?
Sep 17, 2003, 12:26
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Hi, I'm back (said with a heavy Austrian accent).
So if you're letting the fulcrum log slide down the stone that's pretty much what I was saing yesterday, except that you also have some guys up on the tower to look after the levers. OK, under these conditions the tower takes no loading at all and you are merely using it as a personnel platform.
With regard to the pole method, I think it is entirely in keeping with our approach in that we raise the lintel stone (and the pole with it) using levers and crib, then we attach the rope and then lever the lintel back down to the ground again, all using your original idea.
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GordonP
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Re: Do we need ropes?
Sep 17, 2003, 12:45
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OK we now have two new methods that will both work, theoreticaly.
Lets get some TV bods interested.
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FourWinds
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Re: Neolithic Rope!
Sep 17, 2003, 12:56
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It's only 'sexy' to a very small cross section of the community.
This sort of limited audience 'sexiness' is usually called a perversion :-)
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nigelswift
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Re: Do we need ropes?
Sep 17, 2003, 13:08
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More about the pole method Gordon (although you seem to be accepting it as one of 2 probables anyway) : the Stonehenge landscape would be littered with vertical poles, as excavations of postholes has increasingly shown. Also, I'm very much with you about doing what "feels" right, yet to me the pole does feel right. Also, two of us have now found it works well in our gardens so we can hardly abandon it yet.
Getting film/TV companies interested: easy, once the website is up. I guess simple illustrations of our two proposed methods on there will help.
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Wotan
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Re: Lawn Greene
Sep 17, 2003, 13:12
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I hope you're recording all these experiments with dowels and such - theyll look great on the website!
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Steve Gray
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Re: Neolithic Rope!
Sep 17, 2003, 13:32
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I think it helps our credibility. It shows that we've done our homework.
If we just went ahead and used nylon rope, there would be those who would dismiss the entire project as bogus. They may be completely unqualified to make such a judgement (e.g. reporters), but they'll make it anyway.
If part of our presentation is that we've carried out experimentation using replica neolithic rope and have concluded that it would work just as well as modern rope for the project, then we have provided a reasonable justification for our choice of using modern rope.
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Steve Gray
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Re: Lawn Greene
Sep 17, 2003, 13:41
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We probably ought to film the models too. I'll be coming down to Derby again soon, so I could bring my camcorder with me if you have any experiments set up, Gordon. I could turn the footage into a video clip for the website. I could do the same with your tape of the original 4 ton stone drop if you don't mind lending it to me for a while.
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