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Shestu 373 posts |
Jun 28, 2003, 22:54
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This thread was created for "Spirit of Place" and it is upon this issue that you rest your doubt... not sure what I love about you Windy... sense of humor, intelligence, honesty, your truth (however misguided 8o)
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wychburyman 951 posts |
Jun 28, 2003, 23:31
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This has been a quite wonderful thread. And yes a PhD could come from it all! But I agree with much of what's been said. And I like the notion of some kind of aesthetic resonance whether this is converted (no pun intended) into some kind of a spirtual experience or not. I cannot think of one prehistoric site that I've visited that doesn't connect with the landscape in some way or at least have wonderful (magical?) environs. Wayland Smithy is fantastic and I experienced a wonderful peace there without anyone elses vibes being there. Some of the Worcestershire countryside is wonderful, but Shropshire also has a magic all of its own. One thing I do find is that I have a growing yearning and need to be in touch with nature/landscape/seasons/sky/water/earth as much as possible. I can't stop staring at it and wanting to experience it - be one with it. It is some kind of primeavil calling I guess and the only thing that keeps me sane in this increasingly mad world.
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Shestu 373 posts |
Jun 29, 2003, 00:12
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Heard every word!! Love it!! Shestu
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morfe 2992 posts |
Jun 29, 2003, 00:37
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I always felt an 'otherness' about these places,the first being a hillfort in Worcestershire, then onwards I became dutybound to let my legs do the walking and the land the talking. But there is truth here, in the natural landscape, who was it said 'sermons in stones, books in babbling brooks'? Or somesuch? Spot on. Over 27(ish) yrs of the odyssey, I found the Earth to be a lover-mother-lovelode of deep yearning and giving, from the terrifying to the most fragile quiver of *being*. And the stones? The mounds? I feel they both captured and amplified the indefinable humming 'buzz' that exists between the self and the Other, the macro-microcosm, not so much a fly in a web-of-a-shake as a web in a webinawebinaweb.... Could I be more vague? ;-) It's somethingabout the reflection of my faith in life, and vice versa, and IMPOssible to put into words effectively, which is as it should be I guess. Agree with Wychburyman, ye compadre of old, this is a great thread. And one that most wonderfully of all, joins each of us here :-) Wordsworth had a handle on it when he said; I have felt A presence that disturbs me with the joy Of elevated thoughts; a sense sublime Of something far more deeply interfused, Whose dwelling is the light of setting suns, And the round ocean and the living air, And the blue sky, and in the mind of man (sic) * b e *
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morfe 2992 posts |
Jun 29, 2003, 01:03
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the 'otherness' became home.
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Shestu 373 posts |
Jun 29, 2003, 01:53
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I was hoping to hear from you on this thread Morfe 8o) *BE* is such a small but powerful word to me. You said it to me several times just before I left for the Women's Retreat. What I went through to get packed etc.! One damn thing after another! Felt like a Banshee was chasing me all the way up the canyon. Responsibilities of being a group leader at the retreat, my children, my grandchild, my mother who just had open heart surgery, unemployed you name it, it was in my head couldn't clear it out. Next day we were sent out on a vision quest. I was alone in nature and this magnified the chaos in my head..... peace cannot live in chaos ya know. Slowly I let my mind unwind.... the river, the mountains, trees began to soothe me. I layed on my blanket and curled into a fetal position, surrendering to mother earth. She showed me the plants that were so happy to be alive they didnt care if they were perfectly formed or what anyone thought of them, same with the trees, rocks etc. showing me how to *BE* The breeze sang a healing song over me as the Great Mother rocked me to sleep. My mind was clear for the first time in a very long time and I felt and was full of so much love. When I awoke a little chipmunk was straight in front of my eyes peeping through the grass. This showed me that kind and gentle things wanted to be near me again.... as within so without. Peace of mind has stayed with me for two weeks now. Love Shestu
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jun 29, 2003, 09:52
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Morfe, Don’t fret about vagueness, that was a great piece of writing of yours, real poetry. I bet most people absolutely understand and empathise with what you were trying to say. I mean, you say that for you, ancient sites ………“captured and amplified the indefinable humming 'buzz' that exists between the self and the Other”……well, that’s everybody, isn’t it? Or at least, if it’s not, then the most anyone could say against it is that they don’t feel it, not that it isn’t valid. On a more prosaic note, although we are nearly all unified here in saying “Nature is good for you” and that we experience “something” at sites, I think it’s probably an uneasy unity. We all hang on to our own interpretations, and when we explain them we use trigger words that can cause the war to break out once again. For my part, for instance, I think the stones are mere lumps of rock, unworthy of regard per se, but nevertheless they and their surroundings stir an emotional reaction in me that I interpret as a genetic one. But “Mere lumps of rock” might well be offensive to some, as at the other end of the scale, some people act and talk as if they are of actual significance in themselves and are worthy of being revered as a consequence, and they surround them with their own symbolic trappings. Druids and pagans spring to mind. They get a kick out of the stones, just like me, but when they dowse them or dress up in front of them or leave offerings at them or use words that for me are trigger words, then suddenly we have no common ground. It’s a shame really, because people who like stones are all really just people who like stones and we all ought to have everything in common, especially since most people don’t give a stuff and much prefer Big Brother. I guess quarrelling about the interpretation of common experience is part of the human condition. Loving God doesn’t seem to bring about much unity. Nor does eating eggs – didn’t the Lilliputians go to war about which end you should open them? I’m glad someone brought up Wordsworth at last. He banged on interminably about the effect that his exposure to Nature and Landscape had on his inner mind and he would have had a thing or two to say on this thread. I don’t think he ever went to Wayland’s Smithy, but listen: Oft in these moments such a holy calm Did overspread my soul, that I forgot That I had bodily eyes, and what I saw Appear’d like something in myself, a dream, A prospect in my mind. (No room for argument there, then!) |
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jun 29, 2003, 11:02
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From “Build your own stone circle! - A DIY Guide” : “Charge” your circle with “positive energies” and “good vibes”; form a sort of “healing/relaxing force field” inside it. Bah! A perfect place to drop one of Pete G,’s tarantulas! :)
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Jun 29, 2003, 11:29
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I'm not sure what the fact that the first time was at a hillfort, a place built out of fear and insecurity and a sign of the violence and hatred of humanity, does for any argument. I know, Morfe, that if personality representing Auras existed and I could see them, then yours would be beautiful to behold, so I'm not attacking you here, just pointing out something that I see as an inconsistancy. The land can be beautiful, but rarely have I found it truly beautiful where the hand of "modern man" has fallen upon it.
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Jun 29, 2003, 11:44
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I'm sorry, but you will notice that I haven't called TomBo the skeptic, but you :-) Yes, the main thread is about spirit of place, but your response of declaring me Healthily Skeptic was to my statement that - no one can put themselves in anyone else's shoes. That's the truth, I'm afraid. I am not skeptical about the possibility of this. It isn't possible! Fact. All I was pointing out was that because we disagree on something that *YOU* believe in, doesn't automatically make me the skeptic. That would imply you were right and I doubted. A point of view that puts me in the posistion of having to prove my case while you sit back and say that you are right because you are right. That ain't right :-) To put it simply : I am not agnostic in these issues - I am firmly athiest. A place can have an ambience built up by its constituant parts; the site itself and the landscape and its position in the landscape. By saying that a place is more beautiful to be in than another because of some 'spirit of the place' is to say that something (or worse someone) is more beautiful than another because it deserves to be. An argument I find wholly ofensive. To say that a thing is more beautiful than another because of anything other than the luck of the draw is outside of my beliefs. Move a site 100m and what's the difference? If the site has a significant alignment then you can still preserve that alignment by moving 100m along that line. I bet we'd all say that this newer position was still beautiful. So how far does this go? How far could you move a site? Do you drive along a road viewing the landscape and think "Oh this is alright" and then suddenly get to one spot and think "Wow! This is awesome!" and then drive on a little way and start to think that it's 'alright' again? I don't think so.
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