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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Oct 03, 2020, 08:28
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And yet Starmer is!
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Oct 03, 2020, 08:34
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Yorkshirepedestrian wrote: They have no right to compel me under threat of violence to wear any item of facial clothing. Sorry, I'm just a radical like that. So it's your freedom against my life. You'll forgive me for thinking you should be compelled to wear a mask. (Sorry, I'm just a radical like that.)
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Amil04 447 posts |
Edited Oct 05, 2020, 21:00
Oct 05, 2020, 19:26
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Nigel, Mr Yorkshirepedestrian..who probably lives in Yorkshire?..and you’re in the West Midlands? not going out..as of a few weeks ago. I don’t think Mr Yorkshirepedestrian is a personal threat to your health. That might sound trite but that’s the way you put it. Have you notice the new levels of control online. ‘Yes, I agree’..Yes..I accepted” The new levels of control in the supermarkets? Queuing to queue...down the freezer aisle. Great..come in out of the rain and stand in a fridge. Why they only make some machines accept cash I don’t know. Useless. They are creating stress, confusion, tension, fallouts. More than half the bloody tills aren’t in use! Surely OPEN ALL THE TILLS! Get people in and out if they want to restrict us so much. Huh? Common sense. I might just see if I can see a senior member of staff. I think I deserve 20mins after shopping there for aeons. It’s nuts. What’s that? It’s the same in the supermarket you go to? The one I use has a new advert on the television. “And all our staff will be wearing a mask too” Like ‘ell as like..are they. How did they learn that?..that they were all going to have to wear a mask all the time. From management or from the ad? How anyone can so religiously defend mask wearing is beyond me. They..ie WHO, PHE, and the phoney government are all on record saying they’re useless. ..masks that is.. WHO came out and said not so long ago that they proposed mask wearing due to political pressure..NOT from new research or evidence. Government just thought it was a ‘good idea’. Sorry, they’re a bit fascist like that. Cheers Yorkshire. Good health to ya both.. https://youtu.be/t-Ev4GDhk8U Why can’t peoplet see were being led by bunch of crooks and have been for centuries. I mean there’s only ‘us’ here..and they can pretty much do anything they like..AS LONG AS...they convince the population..’us’..that it’s a ‘good idea’ and it’s ‘in our interests’ That’s all it takes. cvpandemicinvestigation.com Has your MP received a letter? Ask ‘em! I’ll be asking mine. Condolences HD..you write finely.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Oct 06, 2020, 05:25
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First, I agree we are being led by a bunch of crooks but not in the same way as you say. It's far simpler and more boring: they are using their power to help themselves, their friends and their sponsors, even where it is against the public interest. The Tories have never acted otherwise. Second, of course YP is no danger to me. But what about the chap in my street who thinks the same way as him? Isn't he likely to kill me if I meet him? (Fortunately, it's largely academic, as I don't go out but some vulnerable people on my street do and it's only a matter of time before he kills them, yes?) Third, there have been differing views on the efficacy of masks between different experts and over different times. All any of us can do is take heed of the great majority, which support them. It is bad logic to cherry pick the minority of outliers who support our own preferences. Plus, it's important to recognise it is the efficacy of not infecting OTHERS that is crucial, not efficacy in protecting ourselves. The former is very strongly supported by most experts. Fourth, I think we can all agree Trump is ignorant and dangerous. He may yet have killed some attendees in the Rose Garden, in the WH and his Limo, we'll see how they get on. Fifth, you see control everywhere. But I don't think you should ignore the fact some of the controls are merely sensible health measures. There was a crowd of people waving flags outside Trumps hospital, not wearing masks. They were putting their "freedom" to not wear masks above the safety of their colleagues. They can't know for certain that masks don't work, so they had no right to act as if they DID know for certain. "How anyone can so religiously defend mask wearing is beyond me." They can't, but by exactly the same logic YOU can't be sure either. So here are 2 ticklish questions, no sidestepping please: can I go down the shops? Will I be at risk if I do?
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Yorkshirepedestrian 81 posts |
Oct 10, 2020, 03:48
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nigelswift wrote: Yorkshirepedestrian wrote: They have no right to compel me under threat of violence to wear any item of facial clothing. Sorry, I'm just a radical like that. So it's your freedom against my life. You'll forgive me for thinking you should be compelled to wear a mask. (Sorry, I'm just a radical like that.) I'm an anarchist, have been since my late teens in the 80s when I grew up. I take reasonable care not to cause any harm or loss to my fellow earthlings. I do not believe that the tories or anyone else has the right to order me under threat of violence to shut down my business and force me to remain in my home. I don't believe they have the right to forcibly prevent me from SINGING in a group of more than six or playing music above 85 decibels. I don't believe they have the right to prevent me from dancing with friends. They do not have the right to remove my freedom of assembly under threat of violence. These insane laws terrify me way more than the flu. Just reading them gives me the chills as it should any right-thinking British human. If the tories consider these activities to have become dangerous in the past six months then they may issue safety guidelines. I don't have the supernatural right to force anyone to do these inhuman things... no institution does. This is no way for a society to live and this will end really badly for us all. We're in a scary and very dangerous place. This is fascism.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Oct 10, 2020, 04:52
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Yes, I get it: 1. You believe the Govt has no right to force you to do stuff, only to issue safety guidelines. 2. You take reasonable care not to cause any harm or loss to fellow earthlings. That's fine. But what about those who refuse to take reasonable care to not cause any harm or loss to their fellow earthlings? They'll kill people. So the unwarranted compulsion you object to is welcome protection for others, just as a motorway speed limit is both an attack on liberty and a defence of life. So a lack of compulsion, anarchy, IS pitching your freedom against my life.
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PMM 3155 posts |
Edited Oct 10, 2020, 21:18
Oct 10, 2020, 20:41
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Just a few thoughts on the above. 1. I don't think you have the right to wear a 6 foot long rod with a broken bottle stuck to the end of it on your face. If you do so in public, I will call the police. 2. I'm sure you happily go along, without any such ideological angst, with many things The State orders. You walk along the pavements of Yorkshire, rather than down the centre lane of the M62. You drive on the left hand side, as mandated by The Authorites. 3. If someone chose to deliberately drive on the wrong side of the road because "No nanny State should tell me which side of the road to drive on", I suspect you'd have little sympathy for them when they got banned from driving for 18 months. 4. You've been an anarchist for over 30 years? Why? My understanding of the world when I was in my late teens and early 20's was very different to what it is now. As I've picked up or evolved thoughts and insights over the years, my views, and the labels I attach to myself have changed. Why the stasis?
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Amil04 447 posts |
Oct 16, 2020, 20:30
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Normalisation eh? https://youtu.be/IQPsKvG6WMI https://youtu.be/5gCD9OUefjk
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Amil04 447 posts |
Oct 16, 2020, 20:41
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Just to add.. https://youtu.be/Z1EA2ohrt5Q
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