handofdave
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Re: barack's nuts
Jul 15, 2008, 20:23
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PMM wrote: Fine, but he believed he was doing the right thing and was prepared to explain his beliefs.
And he kept his cool, despite considerable provocation from some quarters.
Well, guess it's a good thing I wasn't there for that.
But I do see your point.
I'd rather be challenged by a William F. Buckley than sleazeballed by a Bill O'Reilly anyday. I'd feel like I'd want to do my homework even, as I'd know I wasn't up against just any garden-variety blowhard. The right wing doesn't seem to have much use for intellectuals anymore, tho.
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nigelswift
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Re: barack's nuts
Jul 15, 2008, 20:24
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Thanks! But I've already sincerely apologised for slipping into abuse.
Having read the whole thread,
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nigelswift
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Re: barack's nuts
Jul 15, 2008, 20:24
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Thanks! But I've already sincerely apologised for slipping into abuse.
Having read the whole thread,
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nigelswift
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Edited Jul 15, 2008, 20:32
Re: barack's nuts
Jul 15, 2008, 20:24
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Thanks! But I've already sincerely apologised for slipping into abuse.
BTW, having read the whole thread, I reckon Tinky's attitude really is the worst that America has to offer, utterly immoral and damaging. Whereas those that have reacted against him are good blokes. Let's hope they win.
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Sir John Dunn
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Re: barack's nuts
Jul 15, 2008, 20:26
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handofdave wrote: PMM wrote: The point I keep on making is that a vote for the mainstream parties is a vote for the status quo, however loudly they proclaim how different they will be.
Yeah, but reality has to be addressed..
Reality?
Don't mention the terrible truth, Dave. I referred to it a while back but I don't think anyone noticed, thank God.
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PMM
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Re: barack's nuts
Jul 15, 2008, 20:33
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*shrugs*
I will be voting Green next election. They have no chance of winning in my area or of winning the whole nation, and if they did it would make less difference than many of us would hope. But a vote for the mainstram parties means that nothing will ever change.
We've been over this many times. You make your bed. You lie in it.
Sleep well.
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handofdave
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Re: barack's nuts
Jul 15, 2008, 20:51
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PMM wrote: *shrugs*
I will be voting Green next election. They have no chance of winning in my area or of winning the whole nation, and if they did it would make less difference than many of us would hope. But a vote for the mainstram parties means that nothing will ever change.
We've been over this many times. You make your bed. You lie in it.
I'd like it very much if the US political system had more of a parliamentary approach, where coalitions including the minor parties could form. Perhaps it's possible to get closer to that if one candidate wins over the other.
Pragmatism sometimes tastes like shit. Some people call it surrender, I call it the inevitable give-and-take that is required for a complex modern society to function. It's a bit of an exercise in loosely controlled chaos, but you and I both know how many utopian visions require a heavy hand to build. And I don't see the Naders willing to become fascists in order to clean house.
So we have a deeply flawed, but remarkably peaceful system of transition from one leader to the next- it's diluted by voter apathy, it's rigged half the time, and in this age of sound bites it's become dumbed down, but opposition candidates don't get murdered and people aren't macheted to death at the polling stations.
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Sir John Dunn
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Re: barack's nuts
Jul 15, 2008, 21:00
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nigelswift wrote: Thanks! But I've already sincerely apologised for slipping into abuse.
BTW, having read the whole thread, I reckon Tinky's attitude really is the worst that America has to offer, utterly immoral and damaging. Whereas those that have reacted against him are good blokes. Let's hope they win.
I love you very much, Nigel. I don't care what the rest of the world thinks about our "friendship".
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PMM
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Re: barack's nuts
Jul 15, 2008, 21:11
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You know what? To some degree I agree with you Dave.
I also think the world is about to be overtaken by events. I'm not sure that it's going to matter a flying fuck who you vote for now.
You're just seeing the first little trickles of water going over the dam right now.
Order requires energy. Without energy, you get chaos. Try not cleaning your house for a month and see what happens. But that's also true of societies. If we have less energy at our disposal our societies will become fragmented. National top down approaches will have to be replaced by bottom up initiatives. Therefore federal government will become less relevent.
People will be too busy wondering how to put food in their bellies to worry about the issues that now seem so important.
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handofdave
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Re: barack's nuts
Jul 15, 2008, 21:34
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PMM wrote: People will be too busy wondering how to put food in their bellies to worry about the issues that now seem so important.
Creationism, Gay Marriage, Gun control, Abortion... yeah, the righties will long for the luxury of the days when they could pretend those were the most important issues they faced.
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