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Where might Mons Graupius have been?
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WolfgangSchaub
1 posts

Where might Mons Graupius have been?
May 16, 2021, 16:42
I am a German interested in the Roman history of Scotland. I thought about the question where the Latin name Mons Graupius might come from, in other words: Where is Mons Graupius? You know, the site of the battle of 84 AD of Agricola against the Caledonians that the Roman historian Tacitus mentions. I know there are several theories and hypotheses about where the site may have been, but none of them is verified.

My approach is etymology:

Not far from Dalginross (where Agricola has fought a battle against the Caledonians previous to Mons Graupius) is the small town of Crieff, pronounced something like "cruuw". The phonetic similarity of this name with Graupius seems striking to me, especially if you know about the shifts of consonants and vowels between languages. "Cr" corresponds to "Gr", "ie" to "au", and "ff" to "p". The Gaelic name of Crieff supports this as well.

Could it therefore be that the famous battle was at the foothills of the Knock of Crieff (278 m)?

I would appreciate if you can give me an "elucidative" response or pass my question on to an expert.

And a personal note: I would love to be part of a search team, digging possibly for remains of the battle.
GLADMAN
950 posts

Re: Where might Mons Graupius have been?
May 19, 2021, 08:48
Hi Wolfgang.

Guess we'd better first point out that since the 'Roman' period is considered 'historic' - owing to the not exactly neutral writings of Tacitus etc - this falls outside the 'prehistoric' scope of The Modern Antiquarian. Not early enough for us lot, unfortunately.

There are, however, a number of Scots active on here whom I know have opinions on the subject. One of the possible sites of the battle, as you are no doubt aware, is upon the flanks of Bennachie:

https://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/3846/bennachie.html
Howburn Digger
Howburn Digger
986 posts

Re: Where might Mons Graupius have been?
May 19, 2021, 13:25
The Pictish HQ was known as "Monid Crup". That might help. The hill of Duncrub might help you too. The true name of the site is " Mons Craupius" and the "Graupius" came from an additional minim stroke on a medieval manuscript. A more pragmatic exploration of Agricolan dated camps and forts along the Highland Line Glen Blocker forts might bear fruit.
Howburn Digger
Howburn Digger
986 posts

Re: Where might Mons Graupius have been?
May 21, 2021, 01:19
WolfgangSchaub wrote:


Where is Mons Graupius? You know, the site of the battle of 84 AD of Agricola against the Caledonians that the Roman historian Tacitus mentions. I know there are several theories and hypotheses about where the site may have been, but none of them is verified.

My approach is etymology:

Not far from Dalginross (where Agricola has fought a battle against the Caledonians previous to Mons Graupius) is the small town of Crieff, pronounced something like "cruuw".


There is no record of any battle involving Agricola at Dalginross. That is sheer conjecture. The "night attack" on the 9th Legion could have taken place almost anywhere from Southern Scotland to the Montrose Basin, perhaps even further North in Moray.

Crieff is pronounced "KR EE F". Like Johan Cruyff the footballer but instead of Cruyff it is pronounced Creef. It rhymes with "Beef". The name Crieff comes from the Gaelic "Craoibh" meaning tree. The word for "tree" (or even "forest") in terms of Scottish locations will not help you find the site of Mons Craupius at all! We are still covered in trees!

I would suggest reading the book "A Battle Lost" by Gordon S Maxwell as a starting point. Another good place to look is at the ongoing investigations by The Gask Ridge Project and the work of Birgitta Hoffmann and David Woolliscroft.

I believe the site of Mons Craupius will be found. However, I do not believe it will be found by looking at the roots of the word "Craup" as no-one actually knows this word's original language was. The site will be found by other means.

Personally I think Mons Craupius was fought North of the Forth-Clyde Isthmus. But not very far North. I have a long-held suspicion of a site/ area which has never been suggested or explored in regard to the lost Roman Battle. Two other later Scottish battles were fought near there and there have been intriguing stray Native & Roman finds locally.

Good Luck WolfgangSchaub !
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