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Astralcat 742 posts |
Aug 27, 2013, 14:33
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tjj wrote: nigelswift wrote: tjj wrote: I'm sure AC doesn't want me defending him like I'm his over protective aunt or something but he does add a different perspective to discussions - as Bladup did in his time here, and to discourage 'alternative' view points make this forum a poorer place (in my opinion for what it's worth). I think this has been clarified by a number of people a number of times recently. Stating beliefs as fact without offering any justification is the only issue. If suggesting that's best not done is "discouraging alternative viewpoints" then so be it, most people are guilty. As for people that got sacked from here I can't think of anyone that didn't deserve it but you could always ask the Eds if they think otherwise. Why would I want to involve the Eds in this discussion? Why are you being so confrontational? Why I am bothering to answer this nonsense ... you tell me Nigel. You seem to have the answer to everything. Over and out ... not slinking off, will be back - but sensible things to do now. I visit a few other sites re. heritage/ancient culture and I must be honest that they are friendlier and more open minded to alternative worldviews/ideas etc. TMA seems to operate on a 'acceptable' v 'unacceptable' as established by a dominant core of contributors. I will say this though. How on earth can you satisfactorily 'prove' something to a purely scientific materialist about something that cannot be proved within their limited framework. You can't. That's where personally experience, study, experimentation comes in.
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Mustard 1043 posts |
Aug 27, 2013, 14:49
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Astralcat wrote: I visit a few other sites re. heritage/ancient culture and I must be honest that they are friendlier and more open minded to alternative worldviews/ideas etc. TMA seems to operate on a 'acceptable' v 'unacceptable' as established by a dominant core of contributors. I can't speak for anyone else, but that's certainly not true from my point of view. I couldn't give two whoots what you believe. I'm even potentially interested in hearing about/discussing some of those beliefs. I don't find them remotely unacceptable. The problem only arises when you try and tell people that they're facts. I'm sure this has been said before, but if you simply prefixed your statements with "I believe", then I think you'd find this place a lot more accepting. It's all about compromise ;) Astralcat wrote: I will say this though. How on earth can you satisfactorily 'prove' something to a purely scientific materialist about something that cannot be proved within their limited framework. You can't. That's where personally experience, study, experimentation comes in. Of course you can't. That's why it ain't a fact. Facts are things that can be demonstrated and proven.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Aug 27, 2013, 15:14
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Exactly! Yet again!
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Astralcat 742 posts |
Aug 27, 2013, 16:06
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Mustard wrote: Astralcat wrote: I visit a few other sites re. heritage/ancient culture and I must be honest that they are friendlier and more open minded to alternative worldviews/ideas etc. TMA seems to operate on a 'acceptable' v 'unacceptable' as established by a dominant core of contributors. I can't speak for anyone else, but that's certainly not true from my point of view. I couldn't give two whoots what you believe. I'm even potentially interested in hearing about/discussing some of those beliefs. I don't find them remotely unacceptable. The problem only arises when you try and tell people that they're facts. I'm sure this has been said before, but if you simply prefixed your statements with "I believe", then I think you'd find this place a lot more accepting. It's all about compromise ;) Astralcat wrote: I will say this though. How on earth can you satisfactorily 'prove' something to a purely scientific materialist about something that cannot be proved within their limited framework. You can't. That's where personally experience, study, experimentation comes in. Of course you can't. That's why it ain't a fact. Facts are things that can be demonstrated and proven. HAHAHAA !!! LOL! You really have made me laugh. Cancel the world moving forward beacause hey chaps, we work only within restricted limits that by their very nature can only confirm what we already understand anyway!
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Astralcat 742 posts |
Aug 27, 2013, 16:06
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LOL!
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Mustard 1043 posts |
Aug 27, 2013, 16:17
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Astralcat wrote: Mustard wrote: Astralcat wrote: I visit a few other sites re. heritage/ancient culture and I must be honest that they are friendlier and more open minded to alternative worldviews/ideas etc. TMA seems to operate on a 'acceptable' v 'unacceptable' as established by a dominant core of contributors. I can't speak for anyone else, but that's certainly not true from my point of view. I couldn't give two whoots what you believe. I'm even potentially interested in hearing about/discussing some of those beliefs. I don't find them remotely unacceptable. The problem only arises when you try and tell people that they're facts. I'm sure this has been said before, but if you simply prefixed your statements with "I believe", then I think you'd find this place a lot more accepting. It's all about compromise ;) Astralcat wrote: I will say this though. How on earth can you satisfactorily 'prove' something to a purely scientific materialist about something that cannot be proved within their limited framework. You can't. That's where personally experience, study, experimentation comes in. Of course you can't. That's why it ain't a fact. Facts are things that can be demonstrated and proven. HAHAHAA !!! LOL! You really have made me laugh. Cancel the world moving forward beacause hey chaps, we work only within restricted limits that by their very nature can only confirm what we already understand anyway! I hate to be a stickler for facts, but would you care to point out where I said that please? :)
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Edited Aug 27, 2013, 18:21
Aug 27, 2013, 16:28
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Astralcat wrote: I think it was more of an editing/time limit problem. In his seminal work 'Triumph Of The Moon' he does make the distinctions between modern Wicca and traditional witchcraft etc. Wicca has its roots in traditional witchcraft, as well as other systems. Gardner would have no doubt studied Israel Regardie's writings re. the Golden Dawn rituals. I don't think it really matters really. Buddhism was a construct borne out of Vedanta. I think Gardner's intentions were entirely genuine, and as for the efficacy of magic ? Ronald Hutton himself is respectful and sympathetic these days as a result of his studies. I'm not getting into another game of semantic one upmanship, but I will say that yet again, the proof or not is down to personal experience. Nicely put Mr A. There seems to be a bit of confusion about what the programme was about, however. Though the title includes the word Witchcraft, the ‘Very British’ bit really does indicate that the prog was about Wicca and its creator Gerald Gardner, not about the history of witchcraft. If that wasn’t clear enough the abstract reads, “The extraordinary story of Britain's fastest-growing religious group - the modern pagan witchcraft of Wicca - and of its creator, an eccentric Englishman called Gerald Gardner.” I don’t think the wider discussion of witchcraft was an editing/time limit problem actually – the focus really was on the Wicca movement started by Gardner. Prof Hutton is well equipped to present a separate prog on witchcraft (British or otherwise) and here’s hoping he will. I know I’ve said it before but I had the pleasure of meeting him at a crop circle conference a few years back (his presence there being yet another illustration of his open-mindedness). I walked into a pub during the lunch break and there he was sitting in the corner on his own. He waved me over and we spent a great hour or so chewing the fat. Fantastic guy – gentle, incredibly intelligent and knowledgeable but, maybe most of all, always open to other people’s perceptions of the world.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Aug 27, 2013, 17:39
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tjj wrote: Why would I want to involve the Eds in this discussion? Why are you being so confrontational? Why I am bothering to answer this nonsense ... you tell me Nigel. You seem to have the answer to everything. Over and out ... not slinking off, will be back - but sensible things to do now. Confrontational, nonsensical, not worth bothering with and a know all - that's a lot of put-downs per line. Any chance you'll explain?
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Aug 27, 2013, 17:53
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"I was pleasantly suprised myself, but no I don't have a link so you'll have to accept my integrity on this one." It would be good if you could find it as "Hutton believes in magic" would be a complete show stopper.
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tjj 3608 posts |
Edited Aug 27, 2013, 18:19
Aug 27, 2013, 18:16
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nigelswift wrote: tjj wrote: Why would I want to involve the Eds in this discussion? Why are you being so confrontational? Why I am bothering to answer this nonsense ... you tell me Nigel. You seem to have the answer to everything. Over and out ... not slinking off, will be back - but sensible things to do now. Confrontational, nonsensical, not worth bothering with and a know all - that's a lot of put-downs per line. Any chance you'll explain? Yes, happy to. I wasn't trying to put you down Nigel. Believe or not, I have fair bit of respect for you. I'm sure you will be the first to agree that you possess exceptional skills when it comes to pedantics and for that matter semantics - in displaying those skills the essence of the discussion is often lost. Referring me to the Eds was the proverbial 'straw'...
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