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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » City of Glasgow » Save Sighthill Stone Circle |
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bauheed 895 posts |
Dec 20, 2012, 15:22
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Sighthill Stone Circle in North Glasgow was built in 1979 according to various star alignments. Although it is not old in the usual Modern Antequarian sense it is still a cosmic, spiritual place and important. Glasgow City Council want to destroy it and the surrounding park to make way for a new sports facility. Sign the petition to help save this unique place: http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/glasgow-city-council-scrap-their-plans-to-demolish-sighthill-park-and-its-stone-circle?utm_source=supporter_message&utm_medium=email More on the background to the Sighthill Stone Circle can be found here: http://www.sighthillstonecircle.net/briefhistory.asp
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Howburn Digger 986 posts |
Jan 01, 2013, 12:08
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Ah yes. Manpower Services. Community Industry. Dole and a fiver. Or else - nothing. In the early 1980's I served/wasted my CI time in at the old St Rollox works at Garngad. My mate Micky Connors had been a labourer at the Sighthill "Circle" "site". I used to drudge my way home to Possil past it. Memories... like the corners of my mind...
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Edited Jan 01, 2013, 16:06
Jan 01, 2013, 16:02
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Duncan Lunan’s paper on the circle is fascinating and well worth a read - thanks for the link. Seems like the, “Principal Landscape Architect was able to suggest no fewer than eighteen possible sites for consideration. Most of them, however, were disqualified by the Victorian fondness for planting trees on their hilltops. The crucial points of the solar and lunar cycles define four arcs on the skyline and if possible, I [Duncan Lunan] wanted clear sightlines to all of them. Only three sites met that requirement and of those, two were on the edges of their parks and very close to people's homes.” Can’t help noticing that the original site is (now) also very close to high-rise apartments and that at least one of the stones has graffiti on it. The circle certainly needs saving, and it really is hard to believe that Glasgow City Council actually wants to destroy it. However, needs do change and if the Council is prepared to finance a new sports facility for the local community perhaps that now takes precedence. It might not be ideal, but maybe the way forward is a compromise – ie insist categorically that the circle is saved but agree to it being relocated to a safer, more tranquil site than the present one; a place where it can become a focal point for those with an interest in our prehistory - there are, after all, many more such people around today than there were 30 years ago when the circle was constructed. Good luck!
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moss 2897 posts |
Jan 03, 2013, 10:22
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bauheed wrote: Sighthill Stone Circle in North Glasgow was built in 1979 according to various star alignments. Although it is not old in the usual Modern Antequarian sense it is still a cosmic, spiritual place and important. Glasgow City Council want to destroy it and the surrounding park to make way for a new sports facility. Sign the petition to help save this unique place: http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/glasgow-city-council-scrap-their-plans-to-demolish-sighthill-park-and-its-stone-circle?utm_source=supporter_message&utm_medium=email More on the background to the Sighthill Stone Circle can be found here: http://www.sighthillstonecircle.net/briefhistory.asp Well there is some more substantial support to save the circle as the following link shows.... http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/top-uk-scientist-calls-for-stones-to-be-saved.19807728?
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
Jan 03, 2013, 10:45
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moss wrote: bauheed wrote: Sighthill Stone Circle in North Glasgow was built in 1979 according to various star alignments. Although it is not old in the usual Modern Antequarian sense it is still a cosmic, spiritual place and important. Glasgow City Council want to destroy it and the surrounding park to make way for a new sports facility. Sign the petition to help save this unique place: http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/glasgow-city-council-scrap-their-plans-to-demolish-sighthill-park-and-its-stone-circle?utm_source=supporter_message&utm_medium=email More on the background to the Sighthill Stone Circle can be found here: http://www.sighthillstonecircle.net/briefhistory.asp Well there is some more substantial support to save the circle as the following link shows.... http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/top-uk-scientist-calls-for-stones-to-be-saved.19807728? It would be nice to think that equally high profiled people will support the upkeep and renovation of 'real' stone circles around the countryside that are falling into disrepair and disappearing from sight because they are not seen as being iconic enough. Down here at Minions we have the iconic Hurlers triple stone circles visited by thousands every year, yet just a stones throw away on Craddock Moor the circle there is lying in complete ruin with most of the stones now buried beneath the turf and gorse, so much so that most have great difficulty in finding it. Knowing where all the known circles are and attempting to find those still to be discovered are vital to our understanding of the area they are in otherwise we will stay in limbo forever. Good luck to all supporting Sighthill, a circle that at least we all know about and realise why it was built.
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dissolving 67 posts |
Jan 03, 2013, 11:13
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Signed
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Howburn Digger 986 posts |
Jan 03, 2013, 19:58
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Littlestone wrote: Can’t help noticing that the original site is (now) also very close to high-rise apartments and that at least one of the stones has graffiti on it. "Apartments" ... sorry I nearly followed through there... strap on the bicycle clips folks... This "stone circle" "site" was built on waste ground on a hillock in the middle of a high rise scheme in North Glasgow. Those high rise flats were there before the stone circle was ever thought of. Decades before. The "stone circle" had a skyline view which was always limited in every direction. For example it was limited by the tower on Glasgow University and the Royal Infirmary... http://www.sighthillstonecircle.net/pictures/vbig/Beyond%20the%20Circle%201.JPG Both were built more than a century before the circle was started. Here is the view onto some typical Sighthill "apartment" (oops! I just followed through...) accomodation. Probably the densest packing of humans in Western Europe. These flats were completed many years before the "stone circle"... http://www.sighthillstonecircle.net/pictures/vbig/Circle%20in%20Summer%202010-1.JPG Another lovely view of the site's in-built astronomical "significance". http://www.sighthillstonecircle.net/pictures/big/5th%20January%202012%20023.jpg I used to have to live in a block of flats like that one. Very close by. Believe me, you don't live there because you want to. Better the money was spent giving people a half (or even a quarter) decent place to live (rather than exist) than spend it shunting about some stone landscaping left behind thirty-odd years ago by Manpower Services dole slaves. Littlestone wrote: The circle certainly needs saving, and it really is hard to believe that Glasgow City Council actually wants to destroy it. Nothing about this needs saving. It is easy to understand why GCC don't want to have to squander council taxpayers money on its completion, consolidation and upkeep. GCC has had to give up on whole communities nearby like Possilpark... in the end some schemes were unsaveable and were just bulldozed. These empty streets used to be full of houses, people and kids. http://goo.gl/maps/hWhXg The "stone circle" was a vanity project started by a well-meaning guy in the MSC thirty-odd years ago. It never had a clear skyline in any direction. EVER. It could never "work". It wasn't completed. This next photo isn't of some Eastern European Gulag scheme. This is Sighthill's last stone being choppered in. http://www.sighthillstonecircle.net/pictures/vbig/Megalith0079%20Operation%20Megalithic.JPG This is not Stalingrad in the 1950's. This is Glasgow 1980. It still looks like this now. The guys who laboured on it got their dole money and a fiver - or else. If English Heritage did something like this now with a Clegg/ Cameron Libcon "Back To Work Scheme" I'm sure it would go down like a cup of cold sick on here. Littlestone you say you cany help notice that "At least one of the stones has graffitti on it". I'd say that is the least of anyones worries. The area was covered in old syringes, needles and human faeces back in the 1980's. It was knee-deep in Buckie bottles and junkies within a year of its original abandonment. People were murdered in this wasteland. Undisturbed, its sealed contexts would have presented a fascinating archaeological record of the early Thatcher years for future archaeologists - and as such it should have been left for them. Everyone's time and money would be better spent re-erecting, completing and consolidating (say) The 12 Apostles down by Dumfries (great BIG skyline)... or even one of those modern Eisteddfod Welsh ones than this crocka...
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Jan 03, 2013, 22:22
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I also said, “...needs do change and if the Council is prepared to finance a new sports facility for the local community perhaps that now takes precedence.” Point taken on the use of the word 'apartments'. A matter of habit I'm afraid as I lived for many years in a country where the word ‘flats’ was unknown and some of the apartments would fall far below the standards set by even the worst type of 'flat' - ie one tiny room, no kitchen and communal wash rooms. Apart from that I’m with you all the way.
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Duncan Lunan 1 posts |
Jan 06, 2013, 21:35
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Hello Julian, and thanks for the support. A few points need to be made in reply to that and the comments on it: The circle is hundreds of yards from the nearest accommodation, not outside people’s windows as it would have been at some of the sites originally suggested. Graffiti is not a problem because the site is so exposed that it quickly weathers off. The Ancient Monuments Commission recommended against cleaning the stones because it’s better to let them build up a natural patina. The Broomhill site was indeed formerly a chemical works, but what of it? Before that, in the 18th century it was part of the largest dairy farm in Europe, and as its name implies, once it was covered with bushes. Solstice fairs were held on the Summerhill next door until the 17th century, and there are astronomical sight-lines from the Cathedral (which was built on an ancient site) to the Summerhill, and from the Summerhill to the Sighthill and to the former huge megalithic site at Knappers in Clydebank. In its first vague form, the idea for the circle didn’t come from the MSC but from Ken Naylor, the Assistant Director whom the Parks Department brought in to head up Special Projects when they got the Jobs Creation money. He held a schools competition whose winning entry was to build a copy of an ancient site, in modern materials, to be an educational feature and visitor attraction. When I was brought in as Project Manager, I pointed out that that first we had to find a site, then design a structure according to ancient principles to fit the actual skyline. One that was agreed, I proposed to build it in stone and dedicate it to Prof. Alexander Thom, Dr. Archie Thom, Dr. Euan MacKie and Prof. Archie Roy, all prominent staff members of the University then or earlier. I can’t speak for Jobs Creation generally, but nobody on Special Projects was a ‘wage slave’. All the vacancies required particular skills, and were advertised and applied for in the ordinary way. I was asked through Prof. Roy to be Manager of the Astronomy Project as a self-employed consultant, and the four of us who made up the stone circle team certainly believed in what we were doing. In addition we were in so much demand for exhibitions and classes in schools and libraries, that another six people were added in the second year – they too applied for the places and clearly got a lot of enjoyment and satisfaction from them. The comment that really puzzles me is, “It never had a clear skyline in any direction. EVER. It could never "work". It wasn't completed.” The seventeen stones of the original design are all in place – what wasn’t completed was a follow-on plan to put in extra alignments with spare stones which the quarry supplied out of goodwill. The circle has 14 astronomical sight-lines, 13 of them to the natural horizon. The 14th might have had, in theory, but has proved to be obscured in practise – for now. Nine of them have been photographed and proven to work; the pictures are in my book “The Stones and the Stars”, published in November. None of them line up with the Glasgow University tower or the Royal Infirmary! The comments you’ve had echo those made by Development and Renovation Services when I met with them in November. They insisted that the circle meant nothing to anyone and challenged me to prove otherwise. Thanks to the petitions started by our friends, we can now show from the comments on them that the circle means a great deal, to local people as well as visitors, in different ways. If it ever gets renovated and becomes the attraction it was meant to be, maybe then it will be seen to have all been worthwhile. Best wishes, Duncan.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Jan 07, 2013, 20:17
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One of the major problems in archaeoastronomy is that of intentionality i.e. it’s all very well noting a possible “alignment “ but was it the intention of the builders ?. The Sighthill circle presents a rare opportunity to discover the intentions of a builder and we discover that it was never the intention to align the circle with the The Univeristy of Glasgow Tower ,a prominent building to the west . The interesting thing is that from the circle at equinoxes the sun is seen to set over Creuch Hill 33 miles to the west but the Uni tower is bang on line . If this was a prehistoric circle and the Uni Tower a prominent standing stone or monument would anyone be convinced that the “alignment “ wasn’t intended?
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