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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Stonehenge » YOU NEED TO KNOW THIS |
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Rockabilly 206 posts |
Mar 08, 2008, 01:55
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Oh I forgot to mention. I love the print out, cut out model on your website.
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beatles 133 posts |
Mar 08, 2008, 02:15
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rockabilly, god i love your screen name. i grew up on elvis, roy orbison, and jerry lee lewis........when jerry lee went to england in the 60's with his 13 year old cousin/wife, he thought it would be ok if he said she was 16..........got the boy in a lot of trouble needless to say......... they just did not understand how it was in the backwoods of appalachia....... anyway thanks for your post. enjoy the model....... clyde ,,,,,,rock on
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Squid Tempest 8769 posts |
Mar 10, 2008, 11:01
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No problem. I might not agree with your theory, but I admire your courage in putting it forward, and the politeness with which you've responded to all of us cynics!
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jimit 1053 posts |
Mar 10, 2008, 11:50
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Bit of a rambling post here but bear with me, all errors are mine :) Much though I would loved to have seen this majestic construction rotating gently in the wind threshing and winnowing the corn, I have some reservations about its purpose, construction and evidence. WHY? Fields at the time (Stonehenge IIIA 2.000BCE) were small, used for growing Emmer, Einkhorn, Barley and Spelt for domestic consumption, bread and ale. Production was small and localised. Salisbury Plain wouldn't have looked like the Great Plains of the US. It would be like these days constructing a vast processing and distribution centre for the output of a couple of allotments. Threshing and winnowing doesn't need a construction 20+ foot high, it was almost certainly done then, as it still is now, at ground level. Most of Salisbury Plain seems to have been pasture for cattle, sheep, goats and lots of pigs. HOW? Let us think about the constructional materials....Big ropes for dragging and pulling stones upright must have been known but this construction needs lightweight high-tensile stuff to work. When the much larger scale model is constructed, (using, of course, natural materials available at the time and using known techniques) and the ropes have been tensioned, soak it in water, (a typical UK summer!) and watch it collapse under its own weight. The sails are equally a huge problem. Are we sure that sails of this sophistication were ever known at this period? What were they made from and how, woven? And the evidence? As above, wet sails weigh a tremendous amount. Boats were generally rowed.True windmills had to wait until the very early Middle Ages. EVIDENCE Transportation of the un-threshed corn. There seems to be little or no evidence that heavy-duty wheeled carts were about in this period. Horses had not been domesticated and why drag the light but bulky un-threshed corn even a mile when you could do all the processing, including grinding, on your own doorstep? Carts or a travois would have left deep ruts in the thin soil over the 10 centuries this is supposed to be in use. PRACTICALITY OK, so you have this stationary mill 20ft in the air, you climb up the ladders (?) and place the sheaves on the top of the horizontal lintels. Climb back down and release the brakes (?). There is a lot of inertia up there, a bit of a push start? Don't know about you but I wouldn't want to be anywhere near it when it starts spinning! The wind springs up and all the sheaves are blown off the top! You really can't have anyone up on top manning the "rigging" as you are adding to the weight. IF you get the thing going, the wind will tip the whole thing so that the rollers on one side would crush the grain and on the other ride gently over the top. Not convinced that rolling is the best way of threshing, I would have thought it needs a different sort of mechanical treatment. Anyway, this thing is spinning merrily and the wind is winnowing the grain from the stalks. It is also blowing the lightweight grain all over the place (primitive wheat species had much smaller grain size), which you then need to collect from inside and outside the circle and separate on the ground, this is known as winnowing........Oh....hang on..... How do you feed a new supply of sheaves to the mill? With all those rollers going around I wouldn't fancy my finger's chances. Is this also the first example of the axled roller being invented before the wheel proper? I have a few more objections but I will leave it to others to take up the baton. A wonderful fun theory but in practice and evidence a bit of a non-starter Jim.
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beatles 133 posts |
Mar 10, 2008, 12:35
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tiompan wrote: I have a working model of the Avebury ditch as a donut factory , any connection ? yes there is a connection.....the avebury donut factory needed the flour from the granary at stonehenge in order to make the donuts.. clyde
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beatles 133 posts |
Mar 10, 2008, 12:38
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Squid Tempest wrote: Do you have any hard evidence for this at all? I'm not a stonehenge expert by any means, but if memory serves the trilithons are in a horseshoe shape, not a full circle, which doesn't fit your theory of a carousel. in my thesis on he site http://granaryatstonehenge.org you will find how the trilithons were used in the mill concept and why a horseshoe arrangement worked well for this.........clyde
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beatles 133 posts |
Mar 10, 2008, 12:44
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Rhiannon wrote: Well I guess I agree Stonehenge could well be 'about' grain, because as you say the landscape around that time was being cleared, and plants were being domesticated. And you'd need to sow and reap your plants just at the right time - an astronomical 'instrument' would come in handy. But isn't the carousel thing rather over-egging the pudding? I mean, Occams Razor and all that. Are there any post holes in the right place as supporting evidence for your theory? The central post for instance. That'd make a bloody big hole. I know you said they could move it around, but it would have to be huge and if it wasn't secured at the top it'd have to be secured at the bottom or surely people would get squashed? I love my folklore and I notice you say "Old stories of sound coming from Stonehenge may be folk memories of the grinding and rumbling noises of the working mill." I haven't spotted these before and am intrigued to hear more / where you got this from. there are two bits of folklore involved here. the one that you hear from severial sources is that the stones walked or moved around.... and isn't there another megalithic site where it is believed that the stones go down to the river to drink once ayear? perhaps the kings men or long meg and her daughters? the folklore of sound or music or rumbling coming from stonehenge was told to me by a friend in wales. i do not know where he heard this. i wish i could tell you more......
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beatles 133 posts |
Mar 10, 2008, 12:49
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Rockabilly wrote: Oh I forgot to mention. I love the print out, cut out model on your website. thanks, the little paper model is a far cry from our large mill model but it gives the basic idea. the main difference being, that in the large model the carousel sits on the sarsen ring and there are only ropes going to the top of the center post. also on the paper model the sails do not rise and fall with the wind (see video) as they do on the big model... ps. i just recently put the paper model plans on the site in color..... clyde
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Rockabilly 206 posts |
Mar 11, 2008, 01:41
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Well I am glad you like my screen name Clyde. We will have to start a post over on Unsung about kick ass Rockin' Music. In the meantime Can't download your thesis on my home PC for some strange reason will have to have another go. read you synopsis - one thing I seem to remember is that one of the lintel stones had a mis-aligned cup in it so they had flipped it over so as not to waste it, and then cut another one. I can't remember if it was in the outer ring or on the centre Trilithons. That alone could be against your theory. However I really think your creative mind would be better spent on another theory. You may well be right that grain is linked but what about hunting & animal husbandry. There were great changes going on back then, though we know so little. You really must get a copy of Standing with Stones, if you haven't already. The true beauty is the mystery. To quote Rupert Soskin "we may never know". He says it a lot but it is the truth. Stonehenge is not a windmill - though the way it is being treated by our government it would probably get more money spent on it if it were! As I said before I like you theory I just don't buy it. All the best to you. P.S. Race with the Devil by Gene Vincent & The Blue Caps - awesome.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Mar 11, 2008, 12:37
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Rockabilly wrote: P.S. Race with the Devil by Gene Vincent & The Blue Caps - awesome. Aahhh ,a bit of sanity .
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