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Annexus Quam 926 posts |
Mar 11, 2002, 00:09
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A quick word for a couple of pleas. I’ve just come back from a painstakingly excruciating trek up and down the Roman road that cuts across the 2,500 m high mountains that divide Iberia in two halves. The thing is, this road is, perhaps not surprisingly, not dead straight as most Roman roads are, but beautifully serpentine, as well as very well preserved. This is also due to its being THE previous Ur-Neolithic trackway that the ancients used for trade and pasture searching. So, in this case, the Romans adopted the ways of the Keltic and native tribes of the centre for technological reasons. The Roman road is as wide as a modern road, but I imagined the pathway to have been tremendously beautiful, surrounded by pine trees, brooks and waterfalls, my only companions during this whole foot-trip a red squirrel (yes! red!) and a group of wild goats that stared at me wondering what the fuck I was on about trampling alone on the hard granite. LAMF being the only unique musical experience (and only on one occasion), being as it is on the border between Roman paranoia and the last pangs of ancient / native spiritual extasis. Now, I can’t imagine the Romans to have ‘adopted’ native ways for anything other than practical reasons. Are there any other instances out there? Even though the Empire was a huge trans-national killing machine, many of the soldiers that made up its army were ‘barbarians’ - which means superstitions may have prevented the destruction of ancient ways on a *more local* level. I’d also ask for someone to scan a few of my photos as I haven’t got a scanner. I’ve already got a couple of people in mind but I’d rather they volunteered, ha! And, in the meantime, the obscurity of Iberian sites makes me wonder... how much would these unclassified sites be worth if they were in the UK? Most of them lie neglected and in isolated unvisited places. Here’s an example... http://www.arjabor.com/imagenes/peraleda/dolmen.jpg And I've always felt an enormous urge to hear Carnival In Babylon on arriving after a long ancient trek, its mood lies there IN between all other moods, a sort of not quite intense ecstatic folky beauty of immense personal predilection. The track Shimmering Sand keeps me perplexed, it is my least fave track in the album but it contains my most fave moment of all, that when the obnoxious high tones are replaced by the sustained deep tones of Chris Karrer, right in the middle. That is a visionary moment!!
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Mar 11, 2002, 08:53
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You know it ain't a problem dude! I have to mail ya tonight so we'll sort it out then. As for roads being adopted. My parents live on the Mawdach estuary in Mid Wales. The modern coastal road bisects their land and the old coastal road is just below it still (I think it's the only place it is still evident) a narrow shelf just wide enough for a cart with steep drop to the estuary below and rising sharply up to where the new road is. When they moved the road it was discovered that the old one was in fact adopted and improved by the romans at some point. It winds like a loon, but surely along the coast and mountains you have no choice. To the north there is the incrdible roman road to Bala with a great roman fort looking down above that horrible power startion. There's an ampitheatre there too. AND there's an old roman road (still with roman surface exposed) that leads to the gold mines way back in the hills. I must dig out the photos and shove 'em on TMA. Ride On!!
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fitzcoraldo 2709 posts |
Mar 11, 2002, 10:21
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shirley Toulsonin her excellent book "Celtic Journeys" states that the Roman soldiers who manned the Hadrian's wall were "free to follow any religion they chose, with two important exceptions. they were forbidden to subscribe to the rites of the native druid culture of the conquered northerners;and they were not allowed to hold christian beliefs" I would assume that as many roman soldiers were native to the Iberian lands that they would have maintained their own religion and culture and assimilated these into their lives as soldiers of Rome. Looking forward to checking out your photos.Where to next?
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caergog 393 posts |
Mar 11, 2002, 13:09
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I don't know if I'm talking about the same road but have just read the pilgrimage by paulo coelho in that as part of the christain tradition he walks the road to santiago (or milky way) which goes from saint-jean-pied-de-port in france to santiago compostela in spain. he mentions another two roads that are followed one to jerusalem and the other the roman road which eventually led to the tomb of st peter in rome. The christains in the first millennium considered all three routes to be sacred, in similar way that muslims go to mecca. Why these routes were used no doubt has more ancient origins but because they all lead to some where of christain signifigance they became used in this manner. love carolinex
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Annexus Quam 926 posts |
Mar 11, 2002, 13:38
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Yeah, Caergog, your right in the St Jacques / St James / Santiago Route thing, it's undoubtedly an Ur-Ancient route taken up by incoming christians. It starts in France and finishes near the Finisterre / Land's End, in an area where Neolithic tradition was incredibly strong. But the Roman road I am referring to is one of the few mountain passes in the very centre of Western Iberia that used to communicate the northern and southern native tribes and pastures. Fitz, exactly, Roman armies were made up of mercenaries of all sorts, including for the main part belligerent germanic and celtic tribes (even Hadrian had Iberian origins), which makes me really sad when I think about it, but which is clearly understandable when we think that neither the Kelts nor the Germanic tribes were a nation nor considered themselves as one, nor were they racially uniform. Indeed, the term Kelt is a good one, as it stands beyond the Roman concept of a uniform people, whereas, in fact, the many different 'Celtic' tribes themselves conquered in some cases, mingled with in other cases, an earlier much more ancient Neolithic people where-ever they settled. Fourwinds, I'll talk to you soon, thanks for the offer, but the Gentleman Dude RG has already offered his services and that is always temptingly wicked!
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Annexus Quam 926 posts |
Mar 11, 2002, 13:44
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the one in Galicia shouldn't be confused with the equally-termed Finisterre in Brittany, or even Cornwall, even though the three ancient atlantic traditions may be very similar
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Mar 11, 2002, 13:52
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From what I remember Claudius used to spy on his 'foreign' troops and observe the rituals and habits. Part of this lead him, in part, to the recovery of the last Rhine Eagle. I don't know which part of him discovered it by the way. As was stated, the only things he didn't allow was Christianity (although he relented on this a little) and Druidic worship. The Druids scared him more than anything else which is why he wiped them all out.
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Mar 11, 2002, 13:56
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No worries, but when you get back the dodgy RG results feel free to give me a shout :-) Actually, although I really wouldn't have minded April looks like a humdinger of a month and so extra work may just have pushed me over the edge! Ok, further over.
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RiotGibbon 1527 posts |
Mar 11, 2002, 14:46
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>but when you get back the dodgy RG results not kidding. Covered in humous and banana smudge maybe dead bird too anyway, I'm off back up to Newcastle, to track down Joolio Geordio to his lair, so you'll get no sense out of me for the next 3 days ... RG
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Annexus Quam 926 posts |
Mar 11, 2002, 23:35
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Hey, Gibbon, I'm getting mixed feelings about all this stuff now, plus, I know of your reputation; and feather oil's not good for photos, so bury those dead birds once and for all, man; relax, life can be cool too. I was also wondering whether you (of all men on earth) might want to give a few of them shelter somewhere on the web. Digital cameras? GPS? Dowsing with aerials? What the hell is all this stuff? Cheers man, you're wicked.
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