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Nick Tasker 12 posts |
Jul 13, 2006, 17:24
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I have come across a few references to written records made by the Romans about cultural practices which they found when they came to these islands. For example, in The Golden Bough, Frazer mentions records made by Julius Caesar of human sacrifice in the British Isles (1993, p. 653). Could anybody tell me where to find any such early texts? Have they been published in recent years? Are they on the internet? It strikes me that such eyewitness accounts must be a good way of confirming or disconfirming the colourful popular image of druids and stone circles, sacrifices and fertility rites. No doubt any such accounts would have to be treated with care. Perhaps the Romans didn't care enough about the cultures they imposed themselves upon to record them accurately. Or perhaps they deliberately distorted their records for propaganda purposes. (Rome is the light! Look at these dark, savage places to which we bring the fruits of civilisation!) This latter possibility seems especially pertinent with respect to Caesar's account; it seems strange to have a ruler doing the work of historians, unless it was because he intended his writings to have political clout. In any case, I would like to judge the evidence for myself. (As an aside, I've also heard about Roman writers who bemoaned the progress of Roman civilisation and waxed lyrical about traditional, rural ways of life. I'd like to find these texts as well!) Thanks very much, Nick
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Jul 13, 2006, 18:35
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Julius Caesar's Gallic Wars is here: http://classics.mit.edu/Caesar/gallic.html Something useful from Tacitus? here http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/tac/ag01010.htm#ag_01_016 Cassius Dio has a little bit on Britain http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Cassius_Dio/home.html There's bound to be more somewhere. But that's a start I guess. I'd be interested to read this stuff too so will keep looking.
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ocifant 1758 posts |
Jul 13, 2006, 18:56
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This is a good read: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1841194689/ Has lots of references to Roman and pre-Roman texts, and suggests most of them relate back to a single source. I don't have the book with me to check at the moment, but it's the best book on 'The Druids' that I've come across so far - very readable, and stacks of bibliographic references. The same guy has also written a companion volume on the History of the Celts which is good too.
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Jul 14, 2006, 08:03
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Perhaps you should order this... http://www.historymatters.appstate.edu/documents/celtsreview_000.pdf War, Women, and Druids: Eyewitness Reports and Early Accounts of the Ancient Celts. Philip Freeman.
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moss 2897 posts |
Jul 14, 2006, 09:06
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Hi Rhiannion, just borrowed Wedlake's Excavation of Apollo at Nettleton book-1930s, good photos of a lot of the stuff that remained intact, several temples, the first probably iron age (Dobunni). Might be a copy at the library. To return to the thread Ann Ross's Pagan Celtic Realms is good on the interweaving of roman and pagan gods, and of course the other person who is an expert Miranda Green, Gods of the Celts....
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ocifant 1758 posts |
Jul 14, 2006, 17:20
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Cheers! Added to the list!
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Jul 14, 2006, 17:27
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ooh Nettleton - that would be interesting. So close to lugbury too (that couldn't have been lost on the locals?). I've started (and stalled with) the EH 'shrines and sacrifice' and they make lots of connections between iron age sites and roman sites that followed them. I guess the Romans really did think 'When in Rome..' Today I've been up at Wick Rocks / the Golden Valley, kick sampling. We thought we'd made it to the Raven rocks but we didn't get up that far in retrospect (did see the peregrine though). All that red ochre! I know you've mentioned it yourself before. And the pink rocks match those at the 'burial chamber' down the road. It was very interesting. Even though we only got as high as the 'summer house' there was a great view - particularly of the row of trees on Freezing Hill. It struck me that we were at another Point In The Landscape. Though with all the quarrying it's hard to say how it would have been - much more enclosed and Ebbor Gorge-ish I suppose. I think it was a popular jaunt in Victorian times? but the industry would still have been there then, which would have been a little odd. Anyway I liked it.
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moss 2897 posts |
Jul 14, 2006, 18:17
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I put my Wick Valley photos and Lansdown barrows photos and words in my Northstoke blog http://northstoke.blogspot.com/. so if you can think of anything to add please do. I worry that the barrows will be ploughed out, but theres a new archaeologist's in Bane's council, who seems enthusiastic and I have already complained about weed burning on the barrows, the farmer is pretty careless when he is harvesting and runs over the barrows, plus since the new stables have been built at the racecourse, all the stone heaped round "The Camp" must have been used for hardcore, some of it was definitely cist material.. wretched people... Moss
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Jul 15, 2006, 08:46
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Iraqi troops defend Britain. Going off at a bit of a tangent I'm afraid but it's been revealed that a "...unit of Iraqis, probably from the Basra region, formed part of the Roman troops defending the empire from incursions at its northernmost border, Hadrian's Wall. A Roman document from about AD400 called the Notitia Dignitatum... refers to an irregular unit... from the Tigris, based at Arbeia, the fort nearest modern South Shields. The name Arbeia itself could be derived from the Latin for Arab."* I wonder what religion those troops practiced... * Extract from an article in today's Guardian, page 10.
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akas555 26 posts |
Jul 17, 2006, 12:57
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In South Shields a persistent rumour has been going round for quite a while; the gist being that boatmen from mesopotamia were brought over by the romans to man the boats/ act as stevedores for the supply ships harbouring in Shields. According to some, a contingent stayed on and became britains first arabic community (possibly confused with the early yemeni immigrants) but there is no direct evidence of this that I've heard of. The Roman harbour in Shields is yet to be found, although occasionally artefacts are washed up onto the beach.
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