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muddymick 136 posts |
Jun 07, 2006, 14:43
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"It is often forgotten that dictionaries are artificial repositories, put together well after the languages they define. Languages are irrational and of a magical nature."( jorge luis borges, prologue to 'el otro,el mismo') I know starting a post with a qoute is a tad pretentious but i will try and be transparent in my reasoning. I have noted in the past threads (especially on contentious subjects) that some posts become stuck on language rather than the broader meaning ( lets say spirit of the post) I think another qoute will establish my position on posts, if we replace the word book where it appears in the qoute with post. "A book is more than a verbal structure or series of verbal structures; it is the dialogue it establishes with its reader and the intonation it imposes upoun his voice and the changing, durable images it leaves in his memory; A book is not an isolated being; it is a relationship an axis of innumerable relationships" (jorge luis borges, again) Right sorry about being so verbose! I have noted that terms such as ritual, sacred and numinous have caused some considerable debate (some very interesting) I would propose that most of us even in the mundane define our lives by and through ritual, that most of us have or have had a numinous experience at least once in our lives, that then helps define our relationship with the sacred (and what and how we define as sacred) As inheritors of a lanscape (internal and external) we are subject to innumerable inferences and influences that (if not define) effect our perception of reality. Within this reality we percieve certain sites and structures as 'special' 'evocative' 'sacred' 'breathtaking' beautiful' 'numinous' etc. I would posit that to fully explore these sites (and there nature) we therefore must explore ourselves, our very nature. we must contextualise our external lanscape by that with which we relate to it our very counciousness. cheers MM
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Edited Jun 07, 2006, 15:52
Jun 07, 2006, 15:01
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Aha well that's what Fieldnotes are born to do - no one can argue with you there about your subjective experience (unlike on the forum)! I'm sure most of us like a bit of the numinous subconscious connotationy thing when visiting / thinking about sites. But - the fact we're hanging round this website at all marks us as at least a teeny bit anoraky. And there's nothing an anorak likes more than lists and facts and certainty. So you'll have to put up with both really.
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muddymick 136 posts |
Jun 07, 2006, 15:30
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cheers , but i do not see it as putting up with i think the lists certainties etc are usefull and def have a place . MM
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Paulus 769 posts |
Jun 07, 2006, 15:41
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< I would posit that to fully explore these sites (and there nature) we therefore must explore ourselves, our very nature. > For worrits worth, I think it essential aswell that to even begin to gain a real understanding of what these old stones are about it's essential to gerrout more and spend a lotta time at these places, in all weathers in all seasons. Sleep here. Eat here. Alter states here. Dream here. Our ancestors did it pretty regularly, but in the modern anorak society of facts and figures, such experiences are deemed as secondary to 'objectivity' (itself a construct of a subjective entity!). How wrong that is. There's an obviously-increasing exploration of these places, but with them comes the inevitable 'ticking 'em off" as people visit them. It's not unlike the Munro-Baggers (as they're called) who climb the Scottish hills, only to waffle and name all the ones they've 'done', but in doing so seem all-too-often to miss the wild-flowers, the call of the burns, the shy fauna, and the chance to dream and hear the echo of old myths resounding in themselves. If people aren't too careful, they cut themselves off from the thing they intially set out to see. All to often...
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Jun 07, 2006, 15:51
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If you don't spend enough time experiencing something you don't see what's really there - you just get a kind of reflection of what you already think you know. So you come away gaining nothing at all. I know people have different reasons for visiting places, and that's fair enough. But i've experienced the same 'done that - next' attitude in so many situations. There's Mr Rh and me standing there looking at a tapir or a river or a racing car or whatever, and you feel like you're in the middle of a stampede of people rushing on to the next thing, and likewise at Famous Stone Circles. In a funny sort of way, by hanging about you're actually experiencing it in a more <i>objective</i> kind of way, because you see something of what's really going on. Whereas if you take it in in one go and rush on, it's far more subjective, because you only see what you expect to see. I think that makes sense.
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muddymick 136 posts |
Jun 07, 2006, 15:51
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cheers Paul I was a tad reluctant to post in case the old 'hidden agenda, or 'undercover poster' theories came out.......tried to be as candid and transparent as poss MM
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muddymick 136 posts |
Jun 07, 2006, 15:54
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I think we have all been guilty of being somewhere while not actually BEING there regards MM
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Paulus 769 posts |
Jun 07, 2006, 15:57
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< In a funny sort of way, by hanging about you're actually experiencing it in a more objective kind of way, because you see something of what's really going on. Whereas if you take it in in one go and rush on, it's far more subjective, because you only see what you expect to see. I think that makes sense. > Make a lotta sense to me Rhiannon!
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Jun 07, 2006, 15:58
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Yes I spend a disgraceful amount of time in that state, though I would rather not. I think the internet encourages it too! I see you are very knowledgable about Buddhism - has that raised your ability to be 'mindful' when visiting ancient sites?
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Paulus 769 posts |
Jun 07, 2006, 16:03
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It's been done before has this - but got completely fucked about by one or two people who, by their own admission (numerous times) said 'nothing to them is sacred' and just kept ranting it, hoping thru the old Pavlovian-Skinner method, that some of us poor children would adopt the mentation, or just simply shurrup (which most did!). It got a bit like talking to the wall - which was a pity.
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