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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » The "perpetual Choirs of Britain". |
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Forrester 77 posts |
Jul 20, 2005, 12:26
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Hi again folks, and especially Morfe, who i know tried to contact me yesterday. Unfortunately the topic was locked, probably my fault, and so no real dialogue could ensue. Anyway, John Michell and some others propose that a system of Choirs existed in pre historic Britain, singing in perpetuity using pilgrims who arrived to a definite system "singing" their way across the country in much the same way as Bruce Chatwin proposed in his classic "The Songlines". The sites for the choirs were laid out in a decagon, the centre of which was at White Leaved Oak outside Malvern. There is a map of the system in "The Measure of Albion" (1999). I believe the same theory was proposed in "The Sun and the Serpent". But what do we know about precisely where this "centre" was? I can't find a structure locally that looks as if it could have been the place, so i wondered if anyone out there has any ideas? It is a lovely, and very spiritual place, where one feels as if something big could have happened a long time ago. Also, does anyone know anything more about this perpetual chior idea, origins for it, or examples of similar things either in other parts of the world or in history? I think something really significant lies beneath this idea, and i'd love to learn more about it, and perhaps revive something like it at the place.
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Jul 20, 2005, 14:44
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I don't remember the mention in 'Sun and Serpent' but that's probably just my memory. I suppose un-literate civilisations indeed pass on important things through poetry and songs, as the Welsh bards did. Quite amazing feats to remember such huge amounts of information, and I suppose the rhythm of the song/poetry helps a bit. Do you also mean that in moving through the country these supposed choirs were singing about the places they were in, recounting the important mythical / historical information about them? (songlines, am I right, is about Aboriginal dreamtime myth?) And I suppose there's the element of 'trance' that would be induced by all that rhythmical breathing and singing generally (think monastic chanting, for one example)? (not wishing to dismiss this as Celtic New Age wishful thinking but unless it's hinted at in one of the much later Welsh poems, could it ever be decided where such a 'school' could have been based?)
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mickc 38 posts |
Jul 20, 2005, 18:27
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Is this what Diodurus Siculus was referring to?
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wideford 1086 posts |
Jul 20, 2005, 19:41
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TRIAD 90 Three Perpetual Harmonies of the Island of Britain: One was at the Island of Afallach, and the second at Caer Garadawg, and the third at Bangor. In each of these three places there were 2,400 religious men; and of these 100 in turn continued each hour of the twenty-four hours of the day and night in prayer and service to God, ceaselessly and without rest for ever.
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Rune 288 posts |
Jul 21, 2005, 01:28
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<i>But what do we know about precisely where this "centre" was? I can't find a structure locally that looks as if it could have been the place, so i wondered if anyone out there has any ideas? It is a lovely, and very spiritual place, where one feels as if something big could have happened a long time ago. </i> Whiteleaved Oak certainly sounds like a special place, the site where 3 counties meet, quartzite abundant in the local geology and a spring - picture here http://www.crystalsandfossils.co.uk/crystals_choosing.html Are there any clues as to a "centre" on an old map? http://www.old-maps.co.uk/gazetteer/10heref151/10heref151gazW.htm Googling Perpetual Choirs turned this up, too, lots on sacred geometry and music. http://www.aniwilliams.com/geometry_music_healing.htm Rune
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Moggz 3 posts |
Sep 19, 2005, 19:25
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I can't actually find this post anywhere on the site, only via a search engine, but I hope you are able to view my reply as it may be of interest to you. It is the general (but disputed) beleif of some local residents of the Malvern, Eastnor, Ledbury area that an ancient, hollow oak tree that stands on the north edge of an amphitheatre of earth and rock marks the centre of the laylines. The tree can be found in a field on the lower western slopes of Ragged Stone Hill, just off a footpath between Hollybush and White Leaved Oak. I've actually writtain an article on "The Magic Oak" on my weblog http://moelbryn-eastnor.blogspot.com
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morfe 2992 posts |
Sep 19, 2005, 19:36
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I love your blog, Moggz, nice one. Do you know much about the Mathon area? I'm centred there at the monet, there's a bronze age cemetery, but no information on the web really. Incidentally, was cycling around Eastnor a few weeks ago and was intrigued by Coneygree/Mayhill Wood. Do you know anything about the derivation of the name May Hill and the nearby 'Dead Woman's Thorn?' Tiz a magical area indeed.
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morfe 2992 posts |
Sep 19, 2005, 19:36
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monet? Moment! Apologies.
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Moggz 3 posts |
Sep 19, 2005, 19:41
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With regards to the choirs themselves, I beleive it is thought that 100-strong choirs would sing in shifts around the clock at each of the points around the decagon that forrester refers to. There are actually two of these geometric patterns in the UK. White leaved Oak is the centre of the western ring, however there is a also an overlapping eastern ring. I beleive the theory expands further to suggest that there are patterns through sacred sites across the globe representing the Earths Chakras (energy points like those in the human body) and that purpetual singing, praise and harmony at these points creates world peace. Such points across the world include the Great Pyramids, the Olgas, and some mountain in Tibet among many others. There is in fact an organisation currently undertaking a festival of harmonic resonance or "festival of 144000 souls". Which through the meditating of 144000 souls on world peace will create harmony across the globe - I suppose though "good vibes". Good luck to them. It's all rather confusing and the above is my interpretation of the facts (?!) as best I can comprehend them. But it is safe to say that the Pagan Oak at the foot of Ragged Stone is still a spiritual place or temple for many people even today. *=moggz=*
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Moggz 3 posts |
Sep 19, 2005, 19:51
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Dead Womans Thorn is somewhere I recall walking as a child and over the past weeks have unsucessfully been trying to remember where it is. I'll ask my folks though, they'll know. As for the name: "Deddyman's Thorn, i.e. Dead Woman's Thorn. Local legend says that a woman hung herself on a thorn tree near the cottage, and her ghost haunted the neighbourhood" Eastnor and its Malvern Hills - H.L. Somers-Cocks - 1923 The Somers-Cocks book is very precious to me as it was the authors own copy handed down through history to now reside in the hands of my family. Of May Hill the Rector informs us - "May Hill, behind Eastnor Rectory. Maia was the oldest of the Pleiades, and the wife of Vulcan. Her home was on top of the mountains, or in caves. She was regarded as the "fruitful mother", and was specially worshipped on May 1st." Perhaps the location of May Day celebrations in days gone by? Not too hot on Mathon though I'm afraid. *=moggz=*
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