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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Edited Jan 19, 2011, 12:54
Jan 19, 2011, 12:47
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Not sure how feasible it would have been to preserve it in situ (probably not impossible though) and that would have been my preference too. Failing that I’d opt for sensitively (and with due ceremony) removing it and re-siting it as close as possible to its place of origin (as was done with Abu Simbel in 1968). The Henge wouldn’t necessarily have needed to be indoors either; as long as it was protected from the worst of the elements it could have been set outdoors, against a background of sea and sky. It does not belong in a museum that’s for sure, and it’s not too late to campaign for it being one day relocated to a more appropriate outdoor setting. We really have to change our approach to ‘displaying’ archaeological features like Seahenge. The on-going plans for Stonehenge centre largely around doing away with the existing ‘facilities’ and returning the area to something as it originally was. At the same time we have Lynn Museum doing quite the opposite. Dunno how others feel but I find this depressing (even distressing) and totally at odds with the integrity of the structure; it belongs to a Victorian mind-set that yanks things out of their context and puts them in glass cases and metal cages. That’s not to say things should not be saved, and somehow be accessible, it’s just how it’s done. A BBC news item of 8 July 1999, reports that, “After the timbers have been cleaned, examined and studied, it is hoped that Seahenge will be returned to a spot near its original site and go on public display.” so the idea of returning the structure to a spot near its original site was under consideration. I doubt if it was long-term conservation problems that stopped the plan from going ahead (more likely to be cost) and there really is no reason at all that Seahenge cannot one day be set in a sympathetic setting (just keep English Heritage and Australian architects out of the equation though ;-)
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StoneGloves 1149 posts |
Jan 20, 2011, 09:58
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Here's what Mick Aston said: "Seahenge controversy We also made a documentary – a new experiment for Time Team – at the strange prehistoric site called 'Seahenge' on the Norfolk coast. Since this has generated some controversy I thought I would explain Time Team's role and the part played by individuals. The timber circle on the beach was well known to the locals apparently. English Heritage (the national body charged with the protection of the historic environment) took the decision to move the timbers as it was argued that they were being eroded by the sea. The Norfolk Archaeology Unit were employed to carry out the excavation and the recording. Francis Pryor and Maisie Taylor of Flag Fen at Peterborough were in charge of conservation of the timbers, and further study of them at Flag Fen. Various members of Time Team were only marginally involved in these activities, where we acted rather like Tony as presenters, asking the questions and trying to put the site into some sort of context. Right at the end we were asked to build a replica with tools and techniques in use at the time of the Bronze Age. All this was filmed by Graham Johnson, to us a new producer/director, using a 'mini cam' camera (a high quality very small digital video camera). He has made a lot of fly-on-the-wall films and here tried to capture the various issues and points of view involved. So far I have had messages equally appalled and enthused by the programme. To those who regret the removal (or destruction) of the site I would just add that several similar sites are removed (by gravel extraction or road building) each year in other parts of the country. So far no fuss has been made about these, which suggests to me either it was the good preservation of the timbers or the enormous publicity which set some people off about the Seahenge site". And, on the subject of Tony Robinson, it seems that criticising his style is like criticising Ringo's drumming. Pedantic, perhaps, but without it there'd be no band.
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Edited Jan 20, 2011, 14:41
Jan 20, 2011, 14:36
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...similar sites are removed (by gravel extraction or road building) each year in other parts of the country. So far no fuss has been made about these... No fuss made about Thornborough Henge? where, due to quarrying, “Half the historic landscape has gone and what remains is a minimum sample that ought to be safeguarded for future study and enjoyment.” (Peter Addyman, Chairman, Yorkshire Archaeological Society). No fuss made about the Rotherwas Ribbon? where, “Archaeologists have said the Rotherwas Ribbon, found by road builders, could be as important as Stonehenge.” It is as important, although that didn’t stop Herefordshire Council covering it with a 'protective shield' and then laying a relief road over it! Not a very convincing remark by Mick Aston but thanks for the quote. Meanwhile the damage and desecration goes on, and probably everyone on this board has a similar tale to tell of something going under in their area. If we ain’t smashing it up or covering it over we’re sticking it in a totally unsympathetic environment. With its metal brackets, glass case and artificial lighting this is about as real and as relevant as a plastic pancake.
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
Jan 20, 2011, 15:35
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StoneGloves wrote: (Quoting Mick Aston) So far I have had messages equally appalled and enthused by the programme. To those who regret the removal (or destruction) of the site I would just add that several similar sites are removed (by gravel extraction or road building) each year in other parts of the country. So far no fuss has been made about these, which suggests to me either it was the good preservation of the timbers or the enormous publicity which set some people off about the Seahenge site". Several similar sites are removed EACH YEAR!! Just how appalling is that!!
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Howburn Digger 986 posts |
Jan 20, 2011, 16:29
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I suppose we just cannot keep everything but some destruction seems worser than others. A timber circle was destroyed in the Kilmartin Valley in the late 1990's. From British Archaeology no 29 November 1997 "The remains of a large prehistoric timber circle have been found in a commanding position at the head of the Kilmartin Valley in Argyll, home to one of the richest concentrations of prehistoric ritual monuments in Scotland.The timber circle was set high up on a terrace on the valley side, directly in line with Kilmartin's celebrated linear cemetery of Bronze Age cairns. The circle seems to have been approached out of the valley along a timber avenue reminiscent of the Avenue at Stonehenge and within and near the circle are several cist burials, including one with a complete skeleton preserved inside. The circle, some 46m across, is assumed to be Neolithic in origin but to have been used throughout the Bronze Age. According to the excavator, John Terry of Scotia Archaeology, it may have been one of the principal ritual centres in the valley which contains numerous standing stone settings, a stone circle, elaborate rock art carvings, cairns and other prehistoric features. The circle is littered with post-holes, pits, and multiple post-alignments, he said, but they cannot all yet be fully explained. The site lies within a sand-and-gravel quarry, and will be destroyed as quarrying goes ahead. The quarry itself has been the subject of controversy. It has been worked for several years, but in the late 1980s the quarry operators, M&K MacLeod of Lochgilphead, applied for permission for a major extension. Both Historic Scotland and Strathclyde's regional archaeologist, Carol Swanson, advised against the development, because of the cultural sensitivity of the area. The regional council overruled their objections, because of the jobs the quarry would create. Permission was granted before government planning guidance integrated archaeological protection into the planning system. The quarry operators were not required to finance an archaeological evaluation before their application went through in order to assess what survived under the surface and the site has subsequently proved richer than was expected. As a result, according to Dr Swanson, the money the operators originally agreed to pay towards the dig is now likely to run out when the excavation is still only two-thirds complete." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A bit sad that as late as the late 1990's an area as incredible as Kilmartin should be treated like this.
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
Jan 20, 2011, 17:23
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Howburn Digger wrote: I suppose we just cannot keep everything but some destruction seems worser than others. A timber circle was destroyed in the Kilmartin Valley in the late 1990's. From British Archaeology no 29 November 1997 "The remains of a large prehistoric timber circle have been found in a commanding position at the head of the Kilmartin Valley in Argyll, home to one of the richest concentrations of prehistoric ritual monuments in Scotland.The timber circle was set high up on a terrace on the valley side, directly in line with Kilmartin's celebrated linear cemetery of Bronze Age cairns. The circle seems to have been approached out of the valley along a timber avenue reminiscent of the Avenue at Stonehenge and within and near the circle are several cist burials, including one with a complete skeleton preserved inside. The circle, some 46m across, is assumed to be Neolithic in origin but to have been used throughout the Bronze Age. According to the excavator, John Terry of Scotia Archaeology, it may have been one of the principal ritual centres in the valley which contains numerous standing stone settings, a stone circle, elaborate rock art carvings, cairns and other prehistoric features. The circle is littered with post-holes, pits, and multiple post-alignments, he said, but they cannot all yet be fully explained. The site lies within a sand-and-gravel quarry, and will be destroyed as quarrying goes ahead. The quarry itself has been the subject of controversy. It has been worked for several years, but in the late 1980s the quarry operators, M&K MacLeod of Lochgilphead, applied for permission for a major extension. Both Historic Scotland and Strathclyde's regional archaeologist, Carol Swanson, advised against the development, because of the cultural sensitivity of the area. The regional council overruled their objections, because of the jobs the quarry would create. Permission was granted before government planning guidance integrated archaeological protection into the planning system. The quarry operators were not required to finance an archaeological evaluation before their application went through in order to assess what survived under the surface and the site has subsequently proved richer than was expected. As a result, according to Dr Swanson, the money the operators originally agreed to pay towards the dig is now likely to run out when the excavation is still only two-thirds complete." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A bit sad that as late as the late 1990's an area as incredible as Kilmartin should be treated like this. I'm a bit lost for words that gravel pit development should take precedent over our heritage. In fact I'm totally lost for words. What a load of shisters!
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jan 20, 2011, 17:42
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Quarry companies are the antithesis of meganuts, they destroy loads of stuff and employ highly paid lawyers to fight all attempts to stop them while saying they'll fill the hole to supply a water park. They used to pay blood money in compensation, the Aggregates Levy, but that's just been cancelled as part of the financial shake-up and because they're friends with the Tories. The number of people in DEFRA dealing with archaeology has been decimated. The govt. is about to make it possible to fast-track applications to quarry places. EH's capacity to fight them has been vastly reduced by funding cuts. The only thing that hasn't changed is that local councillors ALWAYS vote in support of the quarrying, as Google will quickly confirm. Don't ask me how, it must be magic.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Jan 20, 2011, 18:11
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Howburn Digger wrote: I suppose we just cannot keep everything but some destruction seems worser than others. A timber circle was destroyed in the Kilmartin Valley in the late 1990's. From British Archaeology no 29 November 1997 "The remains of a large prehistoric timber circle have been found in a commanding position at the head of the Kilmartin Valley in Argyll, home to one of the richest concentrations of prehistoric ritual monuments in Scotland.The timber circle was set high up on a terrace on the valley side, directly in line with Kilmartin's celebrated linear cemetery of Bronze Age cairns. The circle seems to have been approached out of the valley along a timber avenue reminiscent of the Avenue at Stonehenge and within and near the circle are several cist burials, including one with a complete skeleton preserved inside. The circle, some 46m across, is assumed to be Neolithic in origin but to have been used throughout the Bronze Age. According to the excavator, John Terry of Scotia Archaeology, it may have been one of the principal ritual centres in the valley which contains numerous standing stone settings, a stone circle, elaborate rock art carvings, cairns and other prehistoric features. The circle is littered with post-holes, pits, and multiple post-alignments, he said, but they cannot all yet be fully explained. The site lies within a sand-and-gravel quarry, and will be destroyed as quarrying goes ahead. The quarry itself has been the subject of controversy. It has been worked for several years, but in the late 1980s the quarry operators, M&K MacLeod of Lochgilphead, applied for permission for a major extension. Both Historic Scotland and Strathclyde's regional archaeologist, Carol Swanson, advised against the development, because of the cultural sensitivity of the area. The regional council overruled their objections, because of the jobs the quarry would create. Permission was granted before government planning guidance integrated archaeological protection into the planning system. The quarry operators were not required to finance an archaeological evaluation before their application went through in order to assess what survived under the surface and the site has subsequently proved richer than was expected. As a result, according to Dr Swanson, the money the operators originally agreed to pay towards the dig is now likely to run out when the excavation is still only two-thirds complete." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A bit sad that as late as the late 1990's an area as incredible as Kilmartin should be treated like this. As well as the timber circle the Upper Largie terrace lost in the quarrying had Mesolithic pits , a cursus , a parallel pit alignment/avenue ,another alignment of posts and among a number of burials one of the earliest Beaker burials which has been considered to be that of an immigrant possibly French or Dutch due to the similarities with Beaker graves in Holland and the CZM beakers themselves which are very rare in Britain .
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StoneGloves 1149 posts |
Jan 20, 2011, 19:09
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In Northumberland it doesn't even go before councillors, as I've found out to my cost. A whole long cairn, fed into a rock crusher, to make a half kilometre road, five metres wide, about half a metre deep, and the county archaeologist can't be bothered to take a look, until after it's gone. All the while I'm on a death threat from Britain's seventy second richest person aka the now late White Sultan. (On a brighter note - does anyone suppose that modern antiquarians have been infiltratated by undercover police, and if so what are their names and on what street do they live?)
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jan 20, 2011, 19:34
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A death threat certainly trumps anything I've ever had, although "Big Mick" the metal detectorist recently left a message for Heritage Action.... "A word of friendly advise! we know who and where you are." (It could have been an archaeo though)
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