|
U-Know! Forum » animal rights campaigners jailed |
Log In to post a reply
|
|
|
|
| Topic View: Flat | Threaded | |
|
machineryelf 3681 posts |
Jan 25, 2009, 08:48
|
||
|
pooley wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7837064.stm I may be opening myself up to abuse here, but i'm thick skinned (no, really) Good fucking job. These arseholes did far more damage than good. Where as I agree with their aims, they acted in an equally as vile way as the people they (and I) opposed. The only reason they did more damage than good was that they failed in the objective. HLS is still open, they're locked up.Had they succeeded in shutting down HLS we would be [maybe] tut tutting the method but applauding them for the results What they have achieved is an object lesson in how to get direct action wrong, start digging up graves and throwing paedo accusations about is a sure fire way to alienate people and give ammunition to Daily Mail readers. As shown by the guy who shut down the power station, the greenpeace 3rd runway land selloff etc it is possible to do things that raise awareness without pissing off a large majority.Done correctly you even have a situation like Stanstead where a woman complaining about missing her fathers funeral doesn't get much sympathy, just a question asking didn't she leve it a bit late. Direct action has to affect people that's obvious, but in a way that is not cutting it's nose off to spite its face. If it brings up mre adverse publicity than good it's self defeating
|
|||
pooley 501 posts |
Jan 25, 2009, 09:12
|
||
|
machineryelf wrote: pooley wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7837064.stm I may be opening myself up to abuse here, but i'm thick skinned (no, really) Good fucking job. These arseholes did far more damage than good. Where as I agree with their aims, they acted in an equally as vile way as the people they (and I) opposed. The only reason they did more damage than good was that they failed in the objective. HLS is still open, they're locked up.Had they succeeded in shutting down HLS we would be [maybe] tut tutting the method but applauding them for the results What they have achieved is an object lesson in how to get direct action wrong, start digging up graves and throwing paedo accusations about is a sure fire way to alienate people and give ammunition to Daily Mail readers. As shown by the guy who shut down the power station, the greenpeace 3rd runway land selloff etc it is possible to do things that raise awareness without pissing off a large majority.Done correctly you even have a situation like Stanstead where a woman complaining about missing her fathers funeral doesn't get much sympathy, just a question asking didn't she leve it a bit late. Direct action has to affect people that's obvious, but in a way that is not cutting it's nose off to spite its face. If it brings up mre adverse publicity than good it's self defeating I would not just be tut tutting the methods, even if they have got it closed. they would have won a battle, but lost the war. Also, the woman not making it to the funeral got a huge amount of sympathy, maybe not from you but from me and others on this site alone.
|
|||
|
dee 1955 posts |
Jan 25, 2009, 15:21
|
||
Well i personally believe that vivisectors get everything they deserve, inhuman c**ts.
|
|||
handofdave 3515 posts |
Jan 25, 2009, 15:48
|
||
|
dee wrote: Well i personally believe that vivisectors get everything they deserve, inhuman c**ts. Do you think they're sadistic by design, tho? I imagine some must be, of course, but don't you think most of them consider themselves as working towards cures and such? I think it's important not to dehumanize others too quickly, especially if their actions are based in good intentions. I can think of some people in the world that definitely qualify as inhuman cunts, but I'm guessing that we all know someone who's life, or quality of life, was saved by modern medicine... and all modern medicine bears, somewhere down the line, a debt to some creature in a lab. Should we be trying to eliminate animal testing whenever possible? Absolutely. But it's a slippery slope to reduce a researcher to inhuman status. It's not very far away from the anti-abortionists who dehumanize doctors who perform them, which in their mind justifies bombings and shootings.
|
|||
|
dee 1955 posts |
Jan 25, 2009, 16:13
|
||
|
Do you think they're sadistic by design, tho? I imagine some must be, of course, but don't you think most of them consider themselves as working towards cures and such? 'I think it's important not to dehumanize others too quickly, especially if their actions are based in good intentions. I can think of some people in the world that definitely qualify as inhuman cunts, but I'm guessing that we all know someone who's life, or quality of life, was saved by modern medicine... and all modern medicine bears, somewhere down the line, a debt to some creature in a lab. Should we be trying to eliminate animal testing whenever possible? Absolutely. But it's a slippery slope to reduce a researcher to inhuman status. It's not very far away from the anti-abortionists who dehumanize doctors who perform them, which in their mind justifies bombings and shootings'.......wrote Hand of Dave Well, yeah, this is just my opinion after all. And i probably. used the term 'inhuman' incorrectly! After all, our track record shows us 'humans' up for being a right bunch of cunts a lot of the time!!! And yes, modern medicine may be amazing some of the time, and has saved many lives, but look at the lives it ruins with prescription chemicals folks are consuming every day, all with a list of hideous side effects. There are always safer natural or herbal alternatives and ways of testing medicines which do not use animals. Its 2009 ffs!! As we all know, these pharmaceutical companies are mostly in it for the money
|
|||
|
machineryelf 3681 posts |
Jan 25, 2009, 16:16
|
||
|
pooley wrote: Also, the woman not making it to the funeral got a huge amount of sympathy, maybe not from you but from me and others on this site alone. Call me cynical but do you travel to your fathers funeral at the last minute , ''I need the 2 o'clock flight to Germany as my fathers funeral is at six!!''. No, but it makes a handier soundbite than ''I'm travelling to my fathers funeral in 3 days, I will arrive approximately 12 hours later than intended'' What woud have happened if whilst travelling to the airport they had been involved in a huge pile up, a 3 hour delay on the M25 or whatever. It was a handy soundbite because some business man saying he missed a night out with the boys before a marginally important meeting the next day wasn't going to raise much sympathy. The point of the demonstration was to raise awareness, it worked, and I suspect that most of the population went '' Them crazy protesters, they're a wildbunch in't they'' and never gave it another thought. Maybe some people some where looked a bit deeper and thought '' Maybe they have a point, lets go to Cleethorpes this summer''.
|
|||
|
pooley 501 posts |
Jan 25, 2009, 16:38
|
||
|
machineryelf wrote: pooley wrote: Also, the woman not making it to the funeral got a huge amount of sympathy, maybe not from you but from me and others on this site alone. Call me cynical but do you travel to your fathers funeral at the last minute , ''I need the 2 o'clock flight to Germany as my fathers funeral is at six!!''. No, but it makes a handier soundbite than ''I'm travelling to my fathers funeral in 3 days, I will arrive approximately 12 hours later than intended'' What woud have happened if whilst travelling to the airport they had been involved in a huge pile up, a 3 hour delay on the M25 or whatever. It was a handy soundbite because some business man saying he missed a night out with the boys before a marginally important meeting the next day wasn't going to raise much sympathy. The point of the demonstration was to raise awareness, it worked, and I suspect that most of the population went '' Them crazy protesters, they're a wildbunch in't they'' and never gave it another thought. Maybe some people some where looked a bit deeper and thought '' Maybe they have a point, lets go to Cleethorpes this summer''. goal post well and truly moved
|
|||
|
handofdave 3515 posts |
Jan 25, 2009, 16:59
|
||
|
dee wrote: As we all know, these pharmaceutical companies are mostly in it for the money I don't deny for a second that there's been a serious disconnect with big pharma's hippocratic responsibilities and their unfettered greed. This relentless effort to find more and more reasons to get us all on their pills makes me sick too. But that's not the whole story, of course. I know someone who suffers from a congenital form of arthritis who's had nearly every joint in her body replaced, which has given her a life that otherwise would have been agony from the time she was in her late teens on. I'm sure she's well aware of the part animals played in the development of the techniques that has made it possible for her to have a full life, and is humbly grateful for it.
|
|||
|
dee 1955 posts |
Jan 25, 2009, 17:04
|
||
My point was that her cure could have been researched without animal testing.
|
|||
|
handofdave 3515 posts |
Jan 25, 2009, 17:26
|
||
|
dee wrote: My point was that her cure could have been researched without animal testing. Er... are you a physician? Are you suggesting that we substitute people for animals? Granted, there are people who would volunteer, but I'm skeptical that such a statement bears much ground in reality. I do think that as computer modeling becomes more and more sophisticated, we'll eventually be able to test things out on 'virtual humans'. As to whether a program that sophisticated would achieve the ability to feel pain and suffering is obviously one for the science fiction writers now, but for the time being there really is no substitute for trying things out on living beings, at least for some trials, as harsh as that may be to our sensibilities.
|
| Pages: 7 – [ Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 | Next ] | Add a reply to this topic |
|
|
|
| U-Know! Forum Index | |
