thesweetcheat
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Re: Similarities elsewhere?
Apr 01, 2013, 17:25
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The "little" ante-chamber isn't a proper chamber though, it's open to the air between the facade slabs. It's more like a false portal you have at some Severn-Cotswold tombs. There's no suggestion it was ever an enclosed burial chamber as far as I know.
The leaning stone that separates it from the proper chamber was presumably a supporting orthostat until the capstone slipped.
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thesweetcheat
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Re: Similarities elsewhere?
Apr 01, 2013, 17:29
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Which is why it must be important to work out whether it's manmade or not. If it is natural, it must have been there when the tomb was erected. Erosion of granite takes much, much longer than erosion of, say, a hole in a limestone-built chambered tomb would.
In which case, the hole wasn't "pummelled" through the capstone, thus leading to the tomb's partial collapse.
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tiompan
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Re: Similarities elsewhere?
Apr 01, 2013, 17:29
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bladup wrote: Yes Zennor has 2 chambers, I sit in and like them both, they both "feel" very different, the littlest one is really comfy because of the leaning stone that separates the chambers has a great angle to sit and lean against, in fact i'd go as far to say the angle is perfect to send your head into a very quick trance state, i don't think this is by chance, i've spent hours in it that seem like minutes.
I can't see where the second chamber might be in relation to the original pre capstone collapse structure . There is nothing structural from the original set up that could create anything like what Roy suggests was at Trethevy .
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Sanctuary
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Re: Similarities elsewhere?
Apr 01, 2013, 17:31
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thesweetcheat wrote: No, I'm not suggesting it's exactly as it originally was. It seems perfectly likely that the chamber was sealed, but that could be achieved without a major re-structuring/moving of all the pieces.
What I'm suggesting is that the current structure could have been arrived at by various pieces slipping or falling, rather than by the whole thing being re-built "wrongly".
I assume that large parts of the structure (if not all) would have been covered in a mound? In which case, pieces could shift and move over time underneath, while being kept from collapse by the weight of the earth. (See for example Hetty Pegler's Tump for a chambered barrow where the internal structures gradually weakened and shifted while being kept generally in place by the mound).
It seems more likely to me at least that the current arrangement simply reflects 1000s of years of movement, worsened by the protecting mound disappearing, etc, than a wholesale re-build in a different, "wrong" configuration.
If the capstone was as some would have it then there is no way it could have been completly covered Alken because of the ingress of cairn material. It could, providing the front closure doorway was left open, be covered up to the 'window' stone, otherwise ingress again.
I have never said the whole thing was rebuilt or rebuilt incorrectly. What I have said and still say, is that 4 of the 8 stones are out of position but until people read the book then they won't know which ones they are, then they will understand where I am coming from. The quoit didn't have to fall for this to happen but a chain of circumstances was set up when the lid slipped and it would have all happened in one go.
I can't be expected to keep having to keep explaining things until you all have read it for yourselves to be fair. Once you've done that you won't have to ask so many questions as they would already have been answered for you.You'll all be asking for bloody free copies next! LOL.
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thesweetcheat
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Re: Similarities elsewhere?
Apr 01, 2013, 17:34
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I think the "second" chamber being referred to is the little eastern antechamber between the two facade slabs - on the right in this ground plan:
http://www.hobbyhorsefestival.co.uk/Guide/Cornwall/Zennor.gif
I'm not really sure this is like what is being suggested for Trethevy.
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Sanctuary
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Re: Similarities elsewhere?
Apr 01, 2013, 17:36
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thesweetcheat wrote: Which is why it must be important to work out whether it's manmade or not. If it is natural, it must have been there when the tomb was erected. Erosion of granite takes much, much longer than erosion of, say, a hole in a limestone-built chambered tomb would.
In which case, the hole wasn't "pummelled" through the capstone, thus leading to the tomb's partial collapse.
For that to happen the stone would have to have been lying at the angle it is now either in the ground or above it and have a water 'trapping' area above it (which it hasn't) because the hole is perpendicular to the slope.
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thesweetcheat
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Re: Similarities elsewhere?
Apr 01, 2013, 17:39
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Oh sorry, I thought this was a discussion about Trethevy Quoit.
Bit of a limited discussion if any alternative suggestion is met with "buy the book to find out my answer". If you'd rather the thread was just a "plug", there's probably not much more to add here.
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tiompan
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Re: Similarities elsewhere?
Apr 01, 2013, 17:40
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thesweetcheat wrote:
If that's the case , yes it's a totally different type of second chammber from Roy's , more of a court and not without precedent plus Trethevy could also have had an antechamber too same as Zennor .
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bladup
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Edited Apr 01, 2013, 17:45
Re: Similarities elsewhere?
Apr 01, 2013, 17:43
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Supporting what? That's what i've found out about the place, anyway it makes 2 chambers and is true to the old drawing, and the only stones missing would have been loose and the first it go with the cairn material for the nearby wall, it could in principle have even been made of wood, anyway it's something to show people because it has to be seen to be believed,and so clever and simple by the builders, but the big capstone was held up by a supporting stone [like the old drawings] and the side stones of both chambers have notches to hold little capstones on those said sidestones, these could even have been wood, anyway you end up with the 2 chambers but if there was corbelling up to the big capstone you could have a 3rd chamber over those [the former is easy to prove on site and the latter pretty impossible], believe me it's genus by the builders.
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tiompan
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Re: Similarities elsewhere?
Apr 01, 2013, 17:46
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Sanctuary wrote: 4 of the 8 stones are out of position
That is even more extreme than I imagined . Rearranging one stone maybe misfortune but four .....(with apologies to Oscar )
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