Head To Head
Log In
Register
The Modern Antiquarian Forum »
Line of sight calculator
Log In to post a reply

Pages: 14 – [ Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 6 | Next ]
Topic View: Flat | Threaded
Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4670 posts

Re: Line of sight calculator
Dec 10, 2010, 21:06
nigelswift wrote:

I also don't think the henge wall would be the likely intended viewing point. From a ceremonial point of view (literally) seeing it from inside the henge seems much more likely to have been considered important.

In any case, the henge wall at the relevant point is much lower than it was originally, having been demolished to allow tourist Stage coaches through (no piddling about planning visitors centres in those days, just bish, bash, done!)

The original henge wall (I think) would have been exactly on a line in space running from Silbury, the shoulder of Waden, skimming the henge wall and into the eyeball of a shortish person standing a few feet across from the obelisk. Four points in perfect three dimensional alignment. Chance or deliberate? Spoilsport Littlestone points out Waden might have been wooded, thereby making it chance at a stroke. But WAS it wooded?



Whilst we are discussing the henge bank I'd like to thow open a question. Dunno if it's been asked before but do you think it's possible that the bank was never intended to be an important part of the overall plan? Before everybody says what a daft question that is just have a think about it. What if it was only the ditch that was the important part and the bank just the spoil heap from it dumped on the outside and left, rather than spending donkeys more years removing it. It had to be on the outside because the stones were planned for the inside. But, if it was only the bank that was required then the material for that could have been brought in from elsewhere so it may suggest the ditch was the important bit. Does that make sense and a valid point to raise? I've mentioned this elsewhere in the past and met with a varied response.
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Line of sight calculator
Dec 11, 2010, 07:09
Sanctuary wrote:
[What if it was only the ditch that was the important part and the bank just the spoil heap from it dumped on the outside and left, rather than spending donkeys more years removing it.


You could say the same about Silbury, that it's an irrelevant spoil heap, in fact someone did suggest it, or you could reverse the speculation and say the ditch was irrelevant, and merely the place the material was obtained from. I would have thought though, if we are to look at it in purely ergonomic terms, they wouldn't have built the wall as a spoil heap as the effort of piling it up would be much greater than spreading it out horizontally further away.
Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4670 posts

Re: Line of sight calculator
Dec 11, 2010, 09:01
nigelswift wrote:
Sanctuary wrote:
[What if it was only the ditch that was the important part and the bank just the spoil heap from it dumped on the outside and left, rather than spending donkeys more years removing it.


You could say the same about Silbury, that it's an irrelevant spoil heap, in fact someone did suggest it, or you could reverse the speculation and say the ditch was irrelevant, and merely the place the material was obtained from. I would have thought though, if we are to look at it in purely ergonomic terms, they wouldn't have built the wall as a spoil heap as the effort of piling it up would be much greater than spreading it out horizontally further away.


Yes there are different ways at looking at it of course. You could say it was a 'chicken and egg' situation as one produced the other simultaneously. What difference it would have made to the overall plan if either the ditch or bank were omitted would be another point to debate but I thought it was something to consider…as you would of course when researching any project.
As to Silbury possibly being a spoil heap, well it was a brilliantly constructed one if it was…which it wasn’t of course…I think!!
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Line of sight calculator
Dec 11, 2010, 09:39
"As to Silbury possibly being a spoil heap, well it was a brilliantly constructed one if it was…which it wasn’t of course…I think!!"

Well actually, in defence of the Silbury Spoil Heap theory, of course they had to construct it brilliantly so as to avoid it eroding into the sacred ditch - and they've clearly done a brilliant job - which is more than can be said of the architects of the Avebury spoil heap.
Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4670 posts

Re: Line of sight calculator
Dec 11, 2010, 09:47
nigelswift wrote:
"As to Silbury possibly being a spoil heap, well it was a brilliantly constructed one if it was…which it wasn’t of course…I think!!"

Well actually, in defence of the Silbury Spoil Heap theory, of course they had to construct it brilliantly so as to avoid it eroding into the sacred ditch - and they've clearly done a brilliant job - which is more than can be said of the architects of the Avebury spoil heap.


Except that the Silbury ditch has silted up far more than the Avebury ditch has it not?
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Line of sight calculator
Dec 11, 2010, 09:57
Not from the "spoil heap" though. I guess it's due entirely to the presence of water. There's a case, is there not, for asking EH to dredge it, on the grounds not of radical alteration but merely of overdue maintenance....
Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4670 posts

Re: Line of sight calculator
Dec 11, 2010, 10:26
nigelswift wrote:
Not from the "spoil heap" though. I guess it's due entirely to the presence of water. There's a case, is there not, for asking EH to dredge it, on the grounds not of radical alteration but merely of overdue maintenance....


Yes I agree entirely...then fill it with water...unless it fills on its own of course which it would to a certain degree. Actually there's a big plus to that. We could then do away with the warning notices and let people climb it in the hope that they fall into the ditch and drown and save Goff the trouble of slapping them!! LOL (tic)
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Line of sight calculator
Dec 11, 2010, 10:41
Was it deliberately filled with water originally? I don't know. It would need to be deliberately lined with clay but how can that be known when clay would tend to accumulate over time anyway?

I don't think crocodiles in the moat are the answer as being eaten by one of them might be interpreted as an unlucky accident whereas a slap from Goff could be mentioned on EH's notices as a justified consequence of flouting their request to keep off the hill. He'd be very effective at Stonehenge too, he could hide behind a stone, he's good at that.
tiompan
tiompan
5758 posts

Edited Dec 11, 2010, 13:36
Re: Line of sight calculator
Dec 11, 2010, 10:41
Sanctuary wrote:

Whilst we are discussing the henge bank I'd like to thow open a question. Dunno if it's been asked before but do you think it's possible that the bank was never intended to be an important part of the overall plan? Before everybody says what a daft question that is just have a think about it. What if it was only the ditch that was the important part and the bank just the spoil heap from it dumped on the outside and left, rather than spending donkeys more years removing it. It had to be on the outside because the stones were planned for the inside. But, if it was only the bank that was required then the material for that could have been brought in from elsewhere so it may suggest the ditch was the important bit. Does that make sense and a valid point to raise? I've mentioned this elsewhere in the past and met with a varied response.


There has to be a bank and an accompanying ditch for a monument to fit the definition of a henge .If one or the other primary may not be a problem as there are monuments that have banks but no ditch i.e. embanked enclosures , all examples in Ireland the most famous and impressive of which is the Giant's Ring at Ballynahatty .Maes Howe has an obvious ditch and minimal bank ,Duggleby Howe has a ditch and no bank , in these cases the material from the ditch would not be sufficient to create the final monument and were clearly architectural .
Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4670 posts

Re: Line of sight calculator
Dec 11, 2010, 12:45
nigelswift wrote:
Was it deliberately filled with water originally? I don't know. It would need to be deliberately lined with clay but how can that be known when clay would tend to accumulate over time anyway?



'In 1886, Mr Pass made some excavations and proved that a ditch 15 to 20 feet deep had been dug round the base; this ditch is now completely silted up, but if open it would be full of water all year round, being below river level'.
(An Introduction to the Archaeology of Wiltshire. M E Cunnington 1949).

It that is the case then of course it would be completely full for longish periods of the year and lower at worst at other times, clay lining or not!
Pages: 14 – [ Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 6 | Next ] Add a reply to this topic

The Modern Antiquarian Forum Index