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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Rock art. so what's that all about then. ? |
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Aug 04, 2010, 21:51
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revnox wrote: Tiompan heres a clue in the words of another "much wider corpus of signs that expressed the cosmological and spiritual beliefs of the Neolithic age. Now consider a pre-egoic culture without the consideration of a cosmo-spiritual dichotomy between landscape and self.......where would that lead us? Can I suggest that "mapping " might be more appropriate than map (s) . If you believe that maps or a mapping are "what it is all about " what is it about rock art that makes you believe that and could provide some evidence for others to see your point .
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tjj 3608 posts |
Edited Aug 04, 2010, 23:13
Aug 04, 2010, 22:05
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Sorry to veer away from maps for a moment ... This evening's BBC2 Coast programme was about Brittany and I found the bit about Carnac on iplayer 48 minutes into the programme Coast - Brittany Although he programme moves fast, they make to connection with Carnac and all the other ancient stone sites around the coast of Britain including Orkney. There is a brief and exciting snippet of Mark Horton talking to Guillame Robin inside the passage tomb at Gavrinis and comparing the chevrons found on Angelsey with the rock art inside Gavrinis. Edit: Just spotted some excellent fieldnotes here: http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/10034/gavrinis.html
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revnox 92 posts |
Aug 04, 2010, 22:16
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tiompan wrote: revnox wrote: Tiompan heres a clue in the words of another "much wider corpus of signs that expressed the cosmological and spiritual beliefs of the Neolithic age. Now consider a pre-egoic culture without the consideration of a cosmo-spiritual dichotomy between landscape and self.......where would that lead us? Can I suggest that "mapping " might be more appropriate than map (s) . If you believe that maps or a mapping are "what it is all about " what is it about rock art that makes you believe that and could provide some evidence for others to see your point . What evidence Tiompan do you have for mapping being more appropriate or in fact what arguments? (as opposed to the presumption) then maybe we can move on to the latter questions.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Aug 04, 2010, 22:35
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revnox wrote: tiompan wrote: revnox wrote: Tiompan heres a clue in the words of another "much wider corpus of signs that expressed the cosmological and spiritual beliefs of the Neolithic age. Now consider a pre-egoic culture without the consideration of a cosmo-spiritual dichotomy between landscape and self.......where would that lead us? Can I suggest that "mapping " might be more appropriate than map (s) . If you believe that maps or a mapping are "what it is all about " what is it about rock art that makes you believe that and could provide some evidence for others to see your point . What evidence Tiompan do you have for mapping being more appropriate or in fact what arguments? (as opposed to the presumption) then maybe we can move on to the latter questions. There is little evidence to go on as you seem reluctant to actually say what you think "it's all about " and I did say "suggest " but fwiw the reasoning was . Map , when a noun tends to be a representation of the topography of the whole or part of a real or imagined area in space . When a verb it is an association of element with another or an arrangement of detail .
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revnox 92 posts |
Aug 05, 2010, 07:16
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If we are not referring to geographical topography which term do you think is most applicable and why?
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Chris Collyer 849 posts |
Aug 05, 2010, 11:12
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Chris Collyer wrote: I think there are some figurative carvings in Scotland but the sites escape me at the moment. -Chris The deer at Ballochmyle is what I was thinking of and couldn't remember - http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/156/ballochmyle_walls.html -Chris
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Chris Collyer 849 posts |
Aug 05, 2010, 11:20
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oops, link should have been this- http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/9946/ballochmyle_walls.html
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faerygirl 412 posts |
Aug 05, 2010, 14:35
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revnox wrote: faerygirl wrote: The few things I have read (and maybe it just says a lot about the kind of books I opt for!) suggest its all part of Shaman rituals. If you take certain hallucinogens then you see concentric rings, squiggly lines, zigzags etc. These were (and still are in areas where there are still shamans) often believed to be the ACTUAL next dimention or the land of the dead or the spirits of wherever you were trying to get to. When Graham Hancock took ibogaine as study for the book Supernatural he saw the exact symbols that are often seen as rock art in ancient caves such a wiggly lines, serpents and circles. what exactly do you mean by shaman rituals? Have you taken significant doses of hallucinogens? would you therefore say they are interpretations of some psycho-spiritual process? if so what is this process? When you so vaguely talk of the " land of the dead or the spirits of wherever you were trying to get to. what exactly are you referring to? This is so vague and open to interpretation that i have no idea of your point! Please illuminate. You have no idea of my point. Ok. Quite a few authors (Hancock and Collins spring to mind) Have suggested that rock art is a product of people travelling to other dimentions through various means including trance states (dancing, singing, chanting, hallucinogens) and on their return, they draw what they have seen to enable them a safer or quicker passage to this dimention next time and to please the spirits. Its the kind of thing still used in comunities that have a shaman culture. Its just a guess obviously. We dont have the foggiest what they were for, nobody does! But if youre still struggling then watch some shows that have modern day shamans (Tribe, Mark and Olly, Bruce Parry on the Amazon) so you can see what shaman type rituals are if you dont know. Then read Supernatural by Graham Hancock or the work of Jeremy Narby.
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juamei 2013 posts |
Aug 05, 2010, 15:27
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revnox wrote: Tiompan heres a clue in the words of another "much wider corpus of signs that expressed the cosmological and spiritual beliefs of the Neolithic age. Now consider a pre-egoic culture without the consideration of a cosmo-spiritual dichotomy between landscape and self.......where would that lead us? Given we know nothing of the cosmological and spiritual beliefs of the rock art makers, any map(ping) from the images carved into the rocks to something linked to those beliefs is unlikely to be spottable in this "egoic" culture. No matter how much explorers of the esoteric would have us believe of their amazing transformations of self, they are still based in modern culture and will always be fundamentally based in modern culture with its social and reflected physiological rules. Asking questions like that is nought but smoke and mirrors...
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Aug 05, 2010, 16:13
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revnox wrote: Tiompan heres a clue in the words of another "much wider corpus of signs that expressed the cosmological and spiritual beliefs of the Neolithic age. Now consider a pre-egoic culture without the consideration of a cosmo-spiritual dichotomy between landscape and self.......where would that lead us? Romford on a Friday night ;-)
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