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VBB 558 posts |
Sep 15, 2010, 08:29
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nigelswift wrote: Ahaaa! Looks like it doesn't it. Warn't Mary great?! Surely it was Alfred that was Great? Mary Cope visited Avebury in 1885, the poem was dated the following year. Elizabeth's stay in Avebury was forty years earlier, her book was published in 1853. Whilst it is of course possible that Mary read Elizabeth's book and the religious aspect encourages that thought, the poem was undoubtedly grounded in the visit to the motherland. One particular aspect that perhaps underlines this, is that Mary's poem tends to lean on the historic fabric and nature more than the prehistory and the ancient mystery wilderness aspect, which is an edge present in Elizabeth's final pages emphasizing the theme of the lead character living independently. Mary’s passing reference to the prehistoric oddities in just one verse in eight is rather at odds with a religiously attuned individual visiting such a highly unusual place at a time in the nineteenth century when it was at the peak of being painted by residents and visitors as close in resemblance and religious feel to the natural beginnings of England/the earth/an Eden. Something Elizabeth's book possibly helped underpin. One would then conclude that one didn’t influence the other in terms of what was said about Avebury, but one supposes in view of what Elizabeth’s novel is known for it could have done in other ways.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Sep 15, 2010, 09:52
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Elizabeth visited Wordsworth 3 years before she published it. Does this help? ;)
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Sep 15, 2010, 11:03
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Very interesting Mr V. The dates I gave for Mary (1852-1882) were incorrect - they should have been 1852-1888 (entry here http://www.haverford.edu/library/special/aids/copeevans/page2.php if anyone's interested). moss has also written at length about the Cope family here - http://northstoke.blogspot.com/2010/04/cope-family.html So Mary was 33 when she visited Avebury, 34 when her poem was written and 36 when she died? With references in her poem to, "...pinks and stocks the beds are gay... With scent of woodbine and of rose. Above the borders trim." looks like she was here in the summer (for how long in Avebury though?). There's an online (1858) edition of The Experience of Life here if anyone's interested - http://www.archive.org/details/experiencelife04sewegoog (haven't had time to check if it contains the 'Avebury' bit though).
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VBB 558 posts |
Sep 15, 2010, 11:15
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Littlestone wrote: There's an online (1858) edition of The Experience of Life here if anyone's interested - http://www.archive.org/details/experiencelife04sewegoog (haven't had time to check if it contains the 'Avebury' bit though). Pages 325-7 in that version. BTW There are academic works online discussing the single woman aspect of this book that prove quite an eye opener.
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Sep 15, 2010, 14:09
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One would then conclude that one didn’t influence the other in terms of what was said about Avebury, but one supposes in view of what Elizabeth’s novel is known for it could have done in other ways. Perhaps, though here are a couple more similarities that suggest Mary may have read and been influenced by Elizabeth's book - Elizabeth - My cottage is close to the rectory; close also to the church, which is, however, on the opposite side of the road. It is low, and thatched, covered with creepers, and standing in a little garden, dotted with flower-beds, which it is the delight of the school children to keep in order for me. Mary - Deep hangs the thatch on cottage eaves, And buried deep in ivy leaves... And happy children come and go With rosy cheek and rustic walk, Elizabeth - I have lived there ever since I came to Leigh, and it has become very dear to me, for it is my home, as far as regards this world... Mary - Home of sweet days and thankful nights, Fair fall on thee the morning light... They both walk through the churchyard, each reflecting on the gravestones; Elizabeth wishing to be buried in a sunny spot opposite the south porch, soothed in the knowledge that she will be connected to the church and to those she loved in a safe little corner of England. Mary (who had lived through, and would have know of the horrors of the American Civil War where some 620,000 lives were lost) perhaps reflecting more on the transience of life and the anonymity of death. Sunk in the graveyard plot around, The moss-grown headstones scarce are found Few stoop the lettering to trace Which time's rude hand will soon efface. Fascinating stuff...
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Sep 17, 2010, 08:34
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nigelswift wrote: Elizabeth visited Wordsworth 3 years before she published it. Does this help? ;) Yes... Pile of Stone-henge! So proud to hint yet keep Thy secrets, thou lov'st to stand and hear The plain resounding to the whirlwind's sweep Inmate of lonesome Nature's endless year. William Wordsworth
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VBB 558 posts |
Sep 17, 2010, 14:13
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Littlestone wrote: nigelswift wrote: Elizabeth visited Wordsworth 3 years before she published it. Does this help? ;) Yes... Pile of Stone-henge! So proud to hint yet keep Thy secrets, thou lov'st to stand and hear The plain resounding to the whirlwind's sweep Inmate of lonesome Nature's endless year. William Wordsworth "He [WW] was much older and more feeble than I had expected, and I had a painful feeling of having intruded upon him. I could almost say I am sorry I went, though I dare say by-and-by I shall be glad." She set part of the book in Avebury simply because she used to stay each year with a family that lived there for a few years, and the prehistory seen from the garden reminded her of these people who meant a great deal to her. The rest of the novel is set in Newport.
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Resonox 604 posts |
Sep 23, 2010, 17:30
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Littlestone wrote: Resonox wrote: John Denham's epic poem Cooper's Hill speaks of a long lost era...whilst not exactly being "megalithic"....but worth a trudge through none-the-less! Thanks for that Mr R. Found the poem here - http://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/poem/629.html This bit in the commentary may also be of interest - "The speaker stands on the top of Cooper’s Hill, which, like the nearby St. Anne’s Hill, overlooks the extensive water-meadows known as Egham Mead, through which the river Thames flows on its way to London and the sea." By strange coincidence...I was working in Coopers Hill Lane Egham today. Chatted with a Nat Trust warden who was well informed on Denham's poem as well as another...apparently the view is now limited due to cherry trees etc and the RAF memorial....I would've climbed up to check the remaining view out...but it was battering down with rain...I wimped out!!
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Sep 23, 2010, 19:37
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Denham's poem as well as another... What's the 'other' Mr R? : -)
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Resonox 604 posts |
Sep 24, 2010, 05:44
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Littlestone wrote: Denham's poem as well as another... What's the 'other' Mr R? : -) He was unsure of it's origin but promised me if I ever call to visit Cooper's Hill he(the warden) will look it out for me(plus I've been promised a free parking space if I visit too)
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