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Mike Pitts 3 posts |
Dec 18, 2007, 10:07
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I'm delighted that Emmeline's poem is creating so much interest, and I agree (while some of the lines are a bit dodgy, especially in the earlier version) that it is not an insignificant work. Just noting some corrections to your post (not stuff you knew, just false assumptions you made). First, the contents of the 1849 urn were never lost, and anyone who took the trouble (ie researched it) could have found them in the Keiller Museum and examined them. Some of them have been on display since the museum's earlier redesign c 1970 (the bible poster reproduced in Michael Dames's book was photographed through the case window), and can be seen there now. The full list has never been published before, but that does not make anything "lost" – it just reflects the interests of people like you and me, who hadn't got around to doing it (it also reflects the excavator Richard Atkinson's failure to publish anything substantial on the 1968–70 dig, but that's another story). One of the purposes of museums is to collect and curate things that might interest future generations: "discoveries" in their collections confirm they are succeeding in what they do. Secondly, your "corrections" to the poem. I can confirm that it does indeed read "Churchward" in the last line, which if you think about it makes more sense than "Churchyard" (Silbury is not in the churchyard, but there is a path that goes churchward through the field). The same goes for "pipe", meaning the sound of the instrument, paired with the sound of voices in the next line, "chant". You don't say what the "several minor" "errors" in my transcription are, but all I can say is that I transcribed the poem and it looks right to me. You might be right, but really you should look at the original, always the best way to judge something. Finally, you describe my news piece in British Archaeology as "a rather hurriedly-concocted hardcopy magazine article". Others can judge, but I did the research, published it and as best as I can see, got it right. Perhaps you'd like to add something by tracking down the third possible copy of the poem?
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Edited Dec 18, 2007, 22:59
Dec 18, 2007, 13:54
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First, the contents of the 1849 urn were never lost... I don't actually recall saying they were lost. I said the, "...contents were at some point deposited in the Alexander Keiller Museum at Avebury where they seem to have languished unnoticed until recently." One of the purposes of museums is to collect and curate things that might interest future generations: "discoveries" in their collections confirm they are succeeding in what they do. Indeed, but some museums are unaware of what does lie in their storerooms (let alone their importance) until a member of the public 'discovers' them. The discovery of the Japanese handmade paper collection at the V&A is a case in point (part of that collection incidentally was also found at Kew by the same researcher - neither the V&A or Kew had the faintest idea of the collection's importance or that the two parts belonged together). This is not an unusual occurrence: during my time at one well-known museum in this country I discovered a Tibetan artefact, inlaid with mother-of-pearl, and lying in the corner of an otherwise empty basement. The artefact was covered in a couple of inches of dust and had no doubt laid there unnoticed for decades. Secondly, your "corrections" to the poem. I can confirm that it does indeed read "Churchward" in the last line... Again, I don't actually recall saying that the words churchyard etc were corrections. I asked is, "...this an error in transcription?" Thank you for clarifying the fact that there is no error in the transcription of these words. You don't say what the "several minor" "errors" in my transcription are... Please see http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/forum/?thread=45075&message=564819 In the first online version you had highlighted the word whisper in line 5 of both versions of the poem; this was later corrected to the word down. Perhaps I'm missing something, but in line 9 there appears to be a comma in both versions of the poem after the word Vision. Ditto for line 19 where there appears to be an apostrophe in the word Druid's in both versions of the poem. Finally, you describe my news piece in British Archaeology as "a rather hurriedly-concocted hardcopy magazine article". Yes, I stand by that. Your online article is far more detailed and informative and, personally, I would have preferred to see that reproduced in the magazine rather than space-consuming photos of wax seals and Victorian coins. Perhaps you'd like to add something by tracking down the third possible copy of the poem? Perhaps, but as I said above, it needs a historian not an archaeologist (or an amateur collector of megalithic poems) to unravel this one. Meanwhile, thank you for contributing to this thread (I hope you find some of the other poems here also of interest) and I'm sure I'm not alone in hoping you will continue to contribute to some of the other threads on TMA.
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Lefturn 22 posts |
Dec 18, 2007, 14:14
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Littlestone wrote: [quote][quote]Finally, you describe my news piece in British Archaeology as "a rather hurriedly-concocted hardcopy magazine article". Yes, I stand by that. Your online article is far more detailed and informative and, personally, I would have preferred to see that reproduced in the magazine rather than space-consuming photos of wax seals and Victorian coins . I thought it obvious to put more information on the website (you can never satisfy everyone) and the seals very interesting. Having seen the originals during the period they were 'lost' I noticed that they were all different. Were they perhaps part of a Victorian classical revival set - anyone have any ideas?
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Dec 19, 2007, 19:39
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New Grange The golden hill where long-forgotten kings Keep lonely watch upon their feasting floor Is silent now, the Dagda's harp no more Makes sun and moon move to its murmurous strings; And never in the leafy star-led Springs Will Caer and Aengus haunt the river shore, For deep beneath an ogham-carven door Dust dulls the dew-white wonder of their wings. Yet one may linger loving the lost dream The magic of the heart that cannot die, Although the Rood destroy the quicken rods; To him through earth and air and hollow stream Wild music winds, as two swans wheeling cry Above the cromlech of the vanished gods. Thomas Samuel Jones Jr (1882-1932)
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Mike Pitts 3 posts |
Dec 19, 2007, 19:53
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Well here you are, I'm back already! Thanks for pointing me to the "errors" you saw in the transcription. Two of these are a misreading of the way I annotated the second version, where I put punctuation marks omitted from the first version in square brackets. You were right about one mistake, however, which was corrected a while back (pity the poor person at the CBA who had to get those nerdy red bits right). Still, one corrected miscolouring is not really the same as "several minor and perhaps a couple of major errors". And while you might not like the piece in British Archaeology, that does not make it (necessarily) "hurriedly-concocted": it wasn't. It was a news piece in a newsstand magazine; the more measured article on the website is written in a different style, and of course is more informative, but it took no longer to write. You're taking on a professional writer and editor here, remember :-)
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Dec 19, 2007, 20:44
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Dust dulls the dew-white wonder of their wings. Yet one may linger loving the lost dream The magic of the heart that cannot die... Hmm.... thought there was something vaguely familiar here. The lines in the above do echo a bit Dante and Heaney's poem, A Dream of Solstice http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/forum/?thread=23046&message=259467 where they write - Qual e' colui che somniando vede, che dopo 'l sogno la passione impressa rimane, e l'altro a la mente non riede, cotal son io... Dante, Paradiso, Canto XXXIII 'Like somebody who sees things when he's dreaming And after the dream lives with the aftermath Of what he felt, no other trace remaining, So I live now', for what I saw departs And is almost lost, although a distilled sweetness Still drops from it into my inner heart... Seamus Heaney: A Dream of Solstice
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Dec 20, 2007, 20:34
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Weep for what is lost The most. But spare a tear For more. The truth.
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Dec 21, 2007, 06:36
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We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, and sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams; We are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. Arthur O'Shaughnessy (1844-1881) To stoneheads everywhere :-) Wishing one and all a peaceful and happy winter solstice.
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moss 2897 posts |
Dec 21, 2007, 07:09
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Well I hope Littlestone does not mind me adding my winter Solstice greetings to this thread, but a Happy Solstice to everyone..... http://northstoke.blogspot.com/2007/12/solstice-greetings.html
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TimNP 1 posts |
Jan 07, 2008, 21:49
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Menhir tall, taunting me with your mystery Why do you hide your secrets from me? Visions of our ancestors locked inside Knowledge long forgotten Tall and proud, as old as time You stand forever watching us change.
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