stray
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Re: Re:
Oct 08, 2009, 16:46
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Squid Tempest wrote:
But did Stalin do it in the name of atheism?
*note that I don't know anything about Stalin, so this is a genuine question!
Hahaha.. no. Thats why it was really dumb for Lawrence to use him as an example. Sorry, I see where you're coming from Lawrence, but no. Lots of people have been murdered over ideological differences, be they theological or political. My own stance, (and the stance of well, anyone sensible tbh) is that the theological purges of history (Not Stalin) were actually political anyroad.
In reply to:
Re: Re: (Squid Tempest) |
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stray
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Edited Oct 08, 2009, 16:48
Re: Re:
Oct 08, 2009, 16:47
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Lawrence wrote: Russian Communism was essentially anti-religion/atheist.
Yes, but that wasn't the motivation behind the terrors was it now ? Are you being intellectually disingenuous or do you actually believe it was ?
Edit : To simplify. If russia allowed and supported religious worship do you honestly believe the terrors wouldnt have happened ??
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Lawrence
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Edited Oct 08, 2009, 16:54
Re: Re:
Oct 08, 2009, 16:48
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Well maybe the former...
About the second question I wouldn't know. But it's a good question of how that's any better than what the Christians did.
The thing that I'm against is pointing the finger at Christians and calling them evil just because a handful do evil. That's like those redneck freaks who are so scared of Islam they go psychopathic whenever they see a woman in a headdress...
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stray
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Re: Re:
Oct 08, 2009, 16:49
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Kudos sir. ;)
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Squid Tempest
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Re: Re:
Oct 08, 2009, 16:57
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Lawrence wrote: Well maybe the former...
About the second question I wouldn't know. But it's a good question of how that's any better than what the Christians did.
The thing that I'm against is pointing the finger at Christians and calling them evil just because a handful do evil. That's like those redneck freaks who are so scared of Islam they go psychopathic whenever they see a woman in a headdress...
So what about wars "in the name of God"? You've only got to look at the attrocities committed by Bush under that umberella. He may be one of only a "handful" of evil Christians, but I didn't see too many reports of Christians saying "now wait a minute...".
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stray
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Edited Oct 08, 2009, 17:02
Re: Re:
Oct 08, 2009, 17:00
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Squid Tempest wrote: He may be one of only a "handful" of evil Christians, but I didn't see too many reports of Christians saying "now wait a minute...".
Then you weren't paying attention. Look, in all cases, all cases ever, the motivations for purges/wars etc, etc have been political (economic reasons I'm happily lumping into political too here). Religion justs gets rolled up into it as justification, its not the real cause right ?
Edit : I'd go further and say that anyone who claims religion causes war is an abject moron with a piss poor grasp of reality and history.
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Lawrence
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Re: Re:
Oct 08, 2009, 17:01
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Squid Tempest wrote:
So what about wars "in the name of God"? You've only got to look at the attrocities committed by Bush under that umberella. He may be one of only a "handful" of evil Christians, but I didn't see too many reports of Christians saying "now wait a minute...".
That's like the loony right-wing argument that no muslim spoke out against terrorism... And there were plenty of Christians who were against the war in Iraq, incidentally (hard for you to believe, but it's true...)
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Squid Tempest
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Re: Re:
Oct 08, 2009, 17:03
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Lawrence wrote: Squid Tempest wrote:
So what about wars "in the name of God"? You've only got to look at the attrocities committed by Bush under that umberella. He may be one of only a "handful" of evil Christians, but I didn't see too many reports of Christians saying "now wait a minute...".
That's like the loony right-wing argument that no muslim spoke out against terrorism... And there were plenty of Christians who were against the war in Iraq, incidentally (hard for you to believe, but it's true...)
Not necessarily hard to believe, I just didn't encounter it. Please don't make assumptions about my beliefs. It may not be obvious to you, but I enjoy discussions of this nature because they help me to understand situations that I feel strongly about but have limited knowledge of.
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Lawrence
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Re: Re:
Oct 08, 2009, 17:03
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stray wrote:
Then you weren't paying attention. Look, in all cases, all cases ever, the motivations for purges/wars etc, etc have been political (economic reasons I'm happily lumping into political too here). Religion justs gets rolled up into it as justification, its not the real cause right ?
Now that's one thing I have to dispute -- the Spanish Inquisition was purely religious in intent. But then that's pretty much ancient history by now...
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stray
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Re: Re:
Oct 08, 2009, 17:06
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No. no it wasn't. It was pretty much still an imperialist campaign, expanding a power base, an economic base, and to some extent an attempt to wrest control from Rome over europe.
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