Head To Head
Log In
U-Know! Forum »
Infernal Petroleum Experience
Log In to post a reply

6 messages
Topic View: Flat | Threaded
grufty jim
grufty jim
1978 posts

Re: Oil Fuels War
Mar 18, 2003, 19:42
> So what are you saying Grufty, these peeps
> shouldn't have bothered?
No, cookie. That's not what i'm saying. Though i guess the tone of my message made it easy to interpret that way. Sorry about that.

> Sorry, maybe its because I'm wiped today,
> but I'm really failing to understand this
> response.
That's because it wasn't really trying to get across any new information. It was just an expression of frustration at how crazy things are getting these days. Sometimes (?!) i use U-know to just let rip with my frustrations over society and politics. Should probably try to curtail that.

Let me just say that i'm fundamentally opposed to this war. I believe it's a dreadful idea that, in the long run, will have little or no positive consequences for anyone (Iraqis, Americans, Britons, anyone else), though *may* (and the jury is still out on this) bring some short-term benefit to some. At it's most basic, this war is quite simply immoral and unethical.

At the same time i view it as entirely inevitable. I can see no alternative to this war, excepting the deliberate and voluntary *slashing* of the standard of living of almost every American and every European.

But i see no historical precendent for such a course of action. I honestly do not believe the human race is capable of such an act.

I accept that i have very inconsistent beliefs about the human race. There is - at some level - a contadiction between my beliefs about our potential for beauty and altruism and kindness; and my beliefs about our basic biological and psychological imperatives.

I don't have the "in god's image" thing to fall back on anymore... so as far as i'm concerned, we're basically animals. Animals who have achieved greatness in a very real sense; but animals nonetheless.

And i believe there are significant limits to the altruism of animals _en masse_. As individuals some of us are willing to make great sacrifices for the nebulous concept "the common good" (as i write that, given recent events, i'm thinking specifically of Rachel Corrie). As individuals, most of us are willing to sacrifice much - if not all - to protect of those we love and care about.

However, i do not believe that *most* people are willing to permanently return themselves and their progeny to a far more primitive and less comfortable, subsistence lifestyle as an alternative to fighting a foreign war with an overwhelming military advantage.

I accept that's a pessimistic appraisal of our species. But i fail to see how any other conclusion can be reached given just a cursory glance at the world we have created.

I am not living a "primitivist" existence (though i am doing a lot of research into how i might do that). This isn't a soap-box harangue by the righteous against the unworthy (honestly, if you knew me, you'd know that's not where i'm coming from). It's just my analysis of the situation - and, believe me i'm always looking for a more optimistic counterpoint. So tell me where i'm wrong.

As far as i can see, this war is the literally inevitable result of global consumerism. Protesting it without providing an alternative, is (in my often-wrong opinion) basically futile - even if it is an entirely appropriate and correct response to witnessing an immoral act over which you have no apparent control.

So i don't disagree with the protesters; nor do i think they shouldn't be doing what they're doing. But i do get frustrated at times to see so much creativity and energy being poured into a futile protest against an inevitable war, when there is so little creativity being poured into solving the problems which face us regarding resource depletion and overpopulation (and believe me; there really *is* a shortage of talent in this area).

That's all. Just frustration tinged with a pinch of despair at recent events. I'm not criticising the anti-war movement. But i do believe they may be fighting the wrong battle - and there *is* a battle to be fought.

U-Know! Forum Index