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Trump. Vaguely cheering news.
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Re: Trump. Vaguely cheering news.
Jul 19, 2018, 01:57
Locodogz wrote:
Whilst loathe to put words into other people's mouths (apologies Nigel) I'm gonna try here.

So in every Sandy Hook, more recently Las Vegas, tragedy I suggest that the damage and fallout would have been markedly less in the absence of firearms?

So I'd suggest that - notwithstanding the 'issues' of the perpetrators concerned - their (seemingly easy) access to firearms is key in delivering the level of death and injuries that arise. You could go mad with a monkey wrench but the death toll would probably be lower?

As to a solution - well that's much much harder - I've sympathy for the view that the genie is out of the bottle in terms of the sheer number of guns in circulation in the US, although that doesn't necessarily mean that steps shouldn't be taken to start to try to curb this?

Best solution I heard was the comedian (real comedian) who suggested that you start to charge $1000 per bullet!?!


Thanks for elaborating. The question that most concerns me is why such mass shootings are happening now, and at such an alarming rate. As I stated previously, America has had guns from the beginning. If you read accounts from the 1950s, teenage boys in rural areas used to bring guns to school, to go hunting afterwards. But the specter of school shootings is only a recent phenomenon. What has happened in the meantime to enable this? Why weren't kids in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and early 90s shooting up their classmates? A logical approach to solving the issue of gun violence would address the contributing cultural factors. Ultimately, these cultural factors are just as, if not more, important than material factors. True, from a material perspective, current high-capacity guns are going to increase the body count much more than the rifles and revolvers of old. But why do Americans today increasingly have the urge to go on shooting sprees at all? That is the question through which Americans need to frame their debate.

Like it or not (and I'm not a gun owner myself), guns are a fundamental part of American culture. They are a signifier of "individualism," "freedom", "decisiveness", and all the other themes which together formulate popular perceptions of "America." Of course we can disagree with the appropriateness of that characterization, but nonetheless we have to admit that it's there. Guns are central to the American psyche.

The issue then becomes, how to reduce gun violence in an area where guns (literally or metaphorically) form a core part of the culture? How to frame the topic in a way that does not immediately antagonize gun owners and cause them to adopt a defensive and uncooperative position? When we adopt an attitude of condescension, referring to gun owners as "guys named Butch who wear checkered shirts" and start disparaging the second amendment, is it any wonder that gun owners respond with "fuck you, I'm going to buy more guns and the only way you'll get them is if I die"? Wouldn't it be more conducive to treat the other side with respect? Do you think they are happy about school shootings? They are just as concerned as anyone else. Why can't we work together to solve this issue?

By framing the problem as "guns", you immediately get two antagonistic sides - those who see guns as a central part of their identity, and those who find guns repugnant. Such decisiveness only serves to help our "leaders," giving both parties an energized base. But it never allows actual progress on the issue to be made. Even "common sense" gun reform is rejected, because, after repeatedly being called "deplorable," gun owners view such reform as the first step to taking away their guns. Of course, from the perspective of our "leaders," who cares if no progress is made? As long as they can count on our votes for eternity, everything is fine.

On the other hand, by framing the problem as "culture," you open up space for genuine dialogue to take place. When we, the common people, treat each other with respect, we can circumvent the manipulation of our leaders, and create a better America for us all.
In reply to:
Re: Trump. Vaguely cheering news. (Locodogz)		 Replies:
Re: Trump. Vaguely cheering news. (nigelswift)
Re: Trump. Vaguely cheering news. (thesweetcheat)
Re: Trump. Vaguely cheering news. (Locodogz)
Re: Trump. Vaguely cheering news. (Sanctuary)
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