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U-Know! Forum » Jesus I despise Brexit. |
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goffik 3926 posts |
Jul 27, 2018, 10:38
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nigelswift wrote: I think obsession is fine when each day that goes by demonstrates you're right Goff. It's less so when each day shows you you're not. The evidence backs you into such a tight corner that you end up claiming you'll be delighted if there's no deal. Wot the actual feck? Yes! Absolutely. Obsession in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is the unhealthy option. We expect our politicians to never admit to being wrong (even though I'd respect them infinitely more if they could say "I'm sorry - I can't bring to mind the exact figure right now" or similar) but it shouldn't be that way and certainly not for us normals, who are perfectly entitled to make mistakes! And also to admit when we've made a mistake! We'd certainly not be in this mess if someone in any position of power had the balls to stand up and say "This has gone far enough. It is unworkable. We need to rethink the whole thing". G x
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 27, 2018, 10:44
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Gary Lineker has just admitted he was wrong and is now backing a second referendum. (He played football Goff)
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goffik 3926 posts |
Jul 27, 2018, 11:10
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Ah! I've heard of him! ;) Yes I saw his Tweets. He's been criticised for a Tweet suggesting - like a lot of others at the time - that the #Brexiteers "won" and that everyone else should "get over it". He has changed his mind, as is the right of every sentient being, based on facts that became apparent soon after the vote took place and have become increasingly so as time goes by. In reality, these facts were there way before the referendum, but some folks were happy to accept that they were "fed up with experts" and that a new form of fact has arisen known as "alternative facts" (ie "fibs"). All sounds a bit silly now, doesn't it? :D G x
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 27, 2018, 11:35
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It was Stabber Gove who said “people in this country have had enough of experts” and used that as his excuse for refusing to name any economists who back Brexit. On reflection, claiming the people of Britain had had enough of experts was a mighty insult as it equates the people of Britain with the people you always see behind Trump at his rallies - they certainly want no truck with no experts, no siree.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 27, 2018, 18:16
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12. Europe has clarified it will NOT collect taxes for Britain in any circumstances.
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goffik 3926 posts |
Jul 27, 2018, 19:37
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In related news... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/27/fake-news-inquiry-data-misuse-deomcracy-at-risk-mps-conclude G x
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 31, 2018, 07:37
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Edward Luce ?Verified account @EdwardGLuce 22h22 hours ago Increasingly clear that if U.K. can somehow reverse Brexit, it would be hammer blow to western populist-nationalism in general. Not just Britain’s future at stake. J.K. Rowling liked. Me too!
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tjj 3606 posts |
Edited Jul 31, 2018, 10:04
Jul 31, 2018, 09:56
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I have a 'Brexit' question Nigel and I hope you or someone else can answer it. As Article 50 has been triggered .... "Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon gives any EU member state the right to quit unilaterally, and outlines the procedure for doing so. It gives the leaving country two years to negotiate an exit deal and once it's set in motion it can't be stopped except by unanimous consent of all member states. No country has ever left the EU before, and there was no way to legally leave the EU before the Treaty of Lisbon was signed in 2007." Even if there were another referendum in favour of not leaving surely the process can't be stopped. It seems to me we would have to apply to re-join and get in the queue. The once strong sterling currency now worth almost the same as a euro, how long before its worth less. Would the EU want us ???
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 31, 2018, 10:51
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tjj wrote: Would the EU want us ??? Yes. The latest "horses mouth" statement (as opposed to the "irrevocable" twaddle from some shitty Tories) was less than a week ago: "Britain could still cancel Brexit and stay in the European Union on the same terms it currently enjoys, the French government has said. Nathalie Loiseau, the country’s European affairs minister, said on Thursday France and other member states still did not want Britain to leave the bloc."
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grufty jim 1978 posts |
Jul 31, 2018, 10:57
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tjj wrote: I have a 'Brexit' question Nigel and I hope you or someone else can answer it. As Article 50 has been triggered .... Even if there were another referendum in favour of not leaving surely the process can't be stopped. It seems to me we would have to apply to re-join and get in the queue. The once strong sterling currency now worth almost the same as a euro, how long before its worth less. Would the EU want us ??? In answer to the first point - Article 50 can be revoked. This has been confirmed by the EU Commission (and also by the principle author of the wording of the Article -- who is British, coincidentally). But it needs to be done before the end of the two year period. The UK will cease being a member of the EU next March automatically unless that's done -- no matter how the negotiations pan out or what "transition period" gets agreed. If Article 50 is not revoked by March and the UK leaves (either with a deal or without) then it will take a long time to get back in -- should you ever want to. Legally, the UK won't receive preferential treatment as an ex-member and the process to join the EU is a lengthy one. Worth noting that the UK would be readmitted under less favourable conditions than it currently enjoys. It would have to give a commitment to join the Euro and Schengen (two items it currently has opt-outs on) and would lose its rebate and any other special benefits that Thatcher negotiated on its behalf. In terms of whether the EU would "want" the UK? The answer is yes. But the amount by which it wants the UK as a member drops dramatically after next March. Having the UK inside the EU is a net benefit to the Union. Nobody has ever denied that... though Leavers / Quitters significantly over-estimate that benefit. Leaving the EU is the right of any member, but it imposes costs on others that they never voted for. Ireland is spending a small fortune upgrading the port infrastructure, hiring over a thousand new customs officers and inspectors, and money that should have been going into our health service is now being spent upgrading the IT systems that handle trade with the UK. And that's not to even mention the potentially larger social, cultural, political and economic upheavals that a hard-border on this island would impose. So no, we're not too happy with what's going on in the UK (Ireland will be hardest hit, but it's not just us... the Dutch are hiring an additional 750 customs officers; the French are looking at spending almost a billion euro upgrading their ports and eurostar terminal). We'd absolutely love it if you stopped the insanity before March. The UK has lost a huge amount of respect in Europe because of Brexit, and that's not coming back any time soon, but we'd still prefer NOT to have to deal with the disruption caused by the UK leaving, if it can be avoided. And cancelling Article 50 could and would achieve that. Once the UK is out, however, the damage is done. It would still be a net benefit for the EU to have the UK rejoin. And that would probably not be blocked. But nor would there be any great rush to see it happen.
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