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Jesus I despise Brexit.
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tjj
tjj
3588 posts

Re: National humiliation in the national interest?!
Mar 10, 2019, 13:18
grufty jim wrote:


Thank you, I have seen/heard that before and it is shocking every time. One of my best books is 'Star of the Sea' by Joseph O'Connor which was an education for me. I took my mother to Cobh while she was still alive and we paid our respects to those starving people who sailed from Cork Harbour. Anyone, anyone who has knowledge of the Irish Famine would feel rage at the British Government of the day but it is you who is raising the spectre of the Irish Famine - I have heard food shortages discussed but as yet not in respect to Ireland. I'm not going to get into a further dispute with you over this because its just reinforcing the awful shouty hostility that prevails at present. Like I said in my earlier post I am watching (yes, I do follow the news - thank you for implying I'm an uninformed thickie) waiting, and hoping to whatever grumpy god is out there it gets resolved soon.
grufty jim
grufty jim
1978 posts

Edited Mar 10, 2019, 13:45
Re: National humiliation in the national interest?!
Mar 10, 2019, 13:44
I don't want to argue about this either. But you are wrong here. You aren't just implying -- you are stating outright -- that *I* am the one raising the spectre of The Famine. That I am the one deciding to link that tragedy to brexit. Which would be a pretty vile thing to do right? It's a vile thing you're accusing me of, right? And I agree.

Except it's not me doing it, is it? It's a tory front-bench minister. Just three months ago. Very loudly. And THAT's what I was referring to, which I assumed was obvious.

I used an admittedly exaggerated and satirical phrase (though no worse than you'll hear even on mainstream comedy shows here in Ireland). But all I was doing was referring to something vile that was said by a member of the British government about Ireland.

So why is it *me* "raising the spectre"?

It's not like I'm even the first one to condemn it. This is old news. That spectre was well and truly raised on the floor of the House of Commons by someone called Theresa May...
May condemns Priti Patel's remarks about using food shortages in Ireland for a better Brexit deal

Bobby McDonagh (Irish ambassador to the UK for 4 years) raised the spectre of The Famine too...
Priti Patel’s boorish Brexit comments showed ignorance about Ireland. She’s not alone

Ireland's Commissioner to the EU brought up the subject out of nowhere...
Phil Hogan: If Priti Patel wants to starve the British people, this is how to go about it

Except none of them did. Like me, they were clearly *condemning* those who would do that. Most notably a member of the British government.
nigelswift
8065 posts

Edited Mar 10, 2019, 14:12
Re: National humiliation in the national interest?!
Mar 10, 2019, 14:09
It's a fact, I should imagine, that Brexiters are held in ridicule or contempt in most countries and, bearing in mind the Ballykilcline people, like most of the Famine migrants, ended up in America, that contempt will be intensified in the States if Ireland suffers as a result of Brexit. No-one mentioned that consequence on the bus.
nigelswift
8065 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Mar 10, 2019, 15:10
EU Medicines Agency
? @EMA_News

"Today we are closing our London offices after almost a quarter of a century. Thank you, London for being such a gracious host!"

(Leaving the road clear for the adoption of US standards).
nigelswift
8065 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Mar 11, 2019, 08:28
David Lammy
?Verified account @DavidLammy
11m11 minutes ago

275 financial firms moving £1.2 trillion in assets from the UK to the EU. It will mean a 1% cut in UK government tax receipts.
grufty jim
grufty jim
1978 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Mar 12, 2019, 13:43
nigelswift wrote:
EU Medicines Agency
? @EMA_News

"Today we are closing our London offices after almost a quarter of a century. Thank you, London for being such a gracious host!"

(Leaving the road clear for the adoption of US standards).


It's terribly sad for the UK. Even if brexit is cancelled (and I think it still very well may be) it has done damage to UK /EU and UK / Irish relations that will take years to properly heal.

And that process won't even be able to begin until Britain comes to terms with the whole thing internally.

Part of me was glad to see the brexiters will almost certainly vote against May's deal again. Strategically speaking, I think their best move would be to support any deal that formally severs ties with the EU at the end of March, and then work hard to widen the gap from the outside.

Every day that passes is an opportunity for something to happen that will trigger an election or new referendum. I hope I'm not proven wrong, but I really think Rees-Mogg and his cohort of yahoos are missing a trick by not getting the legal separation fully established before trying to chip away at the details.
nigelswift
8065 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Mar 12, 2019, 14:16
Agreed.
As for a General Election, the current polls say Con 41% Lab 31%. How that could be, given the dire state of the Tories, is almost beyond belief. On the other hand, it will probably be the lowest poll in history, so who knows who will win.
Amil04
447 posts

Edited Mar 12, 2019, 19:24
Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Mar 12, 2019, 19:24
I’ve just been reliably informed by the BBC that those that vote ‘no’ are voting against TM.
Glad they sorted that one out!

Steady on the Gitanes..
PMM
PMM
3155 posts

Edited Mar 12, 2019, 21:24
Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Mar 12, 2019, 21:10
Trying to put my muddy thoughts in order.

1. I voted Remain, and will do so again if the opportunity arises.

2. Theresa May claims that public opinion has not changed. Caroline Lucas claims otherwise.

3. Given how close the result was, it really doesn't have to change much.

4. I have been dismayed by the failure of the Labour Party to provide an effective lead on this.

5. The best explanation I read about this was an essay by Billy Bragg

- The relevent snippet...

Billy Bragg wrote:
"...the time is also drawing near for Labour to make the choice between leave and remain. For the past eighteen months, the party has sought to maintain a balancing act, fearful that, by becoming the party of remain, they would unite the fractious Tories and alienate those Labour supporters who voted leave.

I’ve supported this pragmatic approach, but, as March 29th approaches, the party must decide who it is going to alienate: its supporters who voted leave or those who voted remain? Sadly, in such divided times, it’s simply not conceivable that the party could retain the support of both camps. The outcome of the next election will hinge on this choice.

In 2016, I re-joined the Labour Party after 25 years following the election of Jeremy Corbyn. Having spent the previous four elections casting my vote against the Tories, I finally have someone whose policies allow me to vote for a Labour government. Key among these was the promise that party members would determine policy, not the leadership. That undertaking helped Corbyn to achieve a landslide victory and led to a massive increase in Labour Party membership.

As a party, we are painfully aware of what can happen when a leader decides to make policy with a small cabal of advisors, dismissing the views of party members in favour of focus groups and favourable headlines in the Murdoch papers. The election of Corbyn was a clear rejection of that style of leadership."


6. That rings true for me. To the bafflement and bemusement of many progressives, much of the strongest support for Brexit was in solidly working class areas.

7. Those progressives have done little to help their own cause by accusing those that voted Leave of being racists and xenophobes. Kind of forces people to say "Fuck you. You know nothing" rather than engaging. Give people room to move into or they will not move.

8. I've watched the months go by with increasing bemusement, and have come to realise that this is probably going to be remembered as a real watershed in British history, regardless of where we end up.

9. I have no clue where that will be. I know what I'd like to happen, but my preferred option (another referendum) is no more likely than any other. A request for an extension to article 50 now seems the most likely, but that's just kicking the can down the road.

10. The next few days are going to be interesting!

11. If there is another referendum, the same old bollocks that happened in 2016 will happen again. The same forces will line up against each other. UKIP, which after it's apotheosis became a shambolic nothing will reform, or some other party with the same reason for being will form. It's supporters will be branded "Racist" by vocal shallow progressives.

12. Nah. That'll do for now. I have a sink full of dishes to wash.

(edited for spelling and because I'd forgotten how to do links with words instead of big long URLs)
Captain Starlet
Captain Starlet
1093 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Mar 12, 2019, 21:16
Well, that was fun, will wait to see what happens tomorrow. I can't see a no-deal being accepted but then again I never thought leave would win either! I'd say my money's on revoke A50 or people's vote, but bit short of cash at the moment due to losing my job because of brexit!
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