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Jesus I despise Brexit.
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nigelswift
8112 posts

Edited Mar 10, 2019, 14:12
Re: National humiliation in the national interest?!
Mar 10, 2019, 14:09
It's a fact, I should imagine, that Brexiters are held in ridicule or contempt in most countries and, bearing in mind the Ballykilcline people, like most of the Famine migrants, ended up in America, that contempt will be intensified in the States if Ireland suffers as a result of Brexit. No-one mentioned that consequence on the bus.
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Mar 10, 2019, 15:10
EU Medicines Agency
? @EMA_News

"Today we are closing our London offices after almost a quarter of a century. Thank you, London for being such a gracious host!"

(Leaving the road clear for the adoption of US standards).
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Mar 11, 2019, 08:28
David Lammy
?Verified account @DavidLammy
11m11 minutes ago

275 financial firms moving £1.2 trillion in assets from the UK to the EU. It will mean a 1% cut in UK government tax receipts.
grufty jim
grufty jim
1978 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Mar 12, 2019, 13:43
nigelswift wrote:
EU Medicines Agency
? @EMA_News

"Today we are closing our London offices after almost a quarter of a century. Thank you, London for being such a gracious host!"

(Leaving the road clear for the adoption of US standards).


It's terribly sad for the UK. Even if brexit is cancelled (and I think it still very well may be) it has done damage to UK /EU and UK / Irish relations that will take years to properly heal.

And that process won't even be able to begin until Britain comes to terms with the whole thing internally.

Part of me was glad to see the brexiters will almost certainly vote against May's deal again. Strategically speaking, I think their best move would be to support any deal that formally severs ties with the EU at the end of March, and then work hard to widen the gap from the outside.

Every day that passes is an opportunity for something to happen that will trigger an election or new referendum. I hope I'm not proven wrong, but I really think Rees-Mogg and his cohort of yahoos are missing a trick by not getting the legal separation fully established before trying to chip away at the details.
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Mar 12, 2019, 14:16
Agreed.
As for a General Election, the current polls say Con 41% Lab 31%. How that could be, given the dire state of the Tories, is almost beyond belief. On the other hand, it will probably be the lowest poll in history, so who knows who will win.
Amil04
447 posts

Edited Mar 12, 2019, 19:24
Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Mar 12, 2019, 19:24
I’ve just been reliably informed by the BBC that those that vote ‘no’ are voting against TM.
Glad they sorted that one out!

Steady on the Gitanes..
PMM
PMM
3155 posts

Edited Mar 12, 2019, 21:24
Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Mar 12, 2019, 21:10
Trying to put my muddy thoughts in order.

1. I voted Remain, and will do so again if the opportunity arises.

2. Theresa May claims that public opinion has not changed. Caroline Lucas claims otherwise.

3. Given how close the result was, it really doesn't have to change much.

4. I have been dismayed by the failure of the Labour Party to provide an effective lead on this.

5. The best explanation I read about this was an essay by Billy Bragg

- The relevent snippet...

Billy Bragg wrote:
"...the time is also drawing near for Labour to make the choice between leave and remain. For the past eighteen months, the party has sought to maintain a balancing act, fearful that, by becoming the party of remain, they would unite the fractious Tories and alienate those Labour supporters who voted leave.

I’ve supported this pragmatic approach, but, as March 29th approaches, the party must decide who it is going to alienate: its supporters who voted leave or those who voted remain? Sadly, in such divided times, it’s simply not conceivable that the party could retain the support of both camps. The outcome of the next election will hinge on this choice.

In 2016, I re-joined the Labour Party after 25 years following the election of Jeremy Corbyn. Having spent the previous four elections casting my vote against the Tories, I finally have someone whose policies allow me to vote for a Labour government. Key among these was the promise that party members would determine policy, not the leadership. That undertaking helped Corbyn to achieve a landslide victory and led to a massive increase in Labour Party membership.

As a party, we are painfully aware of what can happen when a leader decides to make policy with a small cabal of advisors, dismissing the views of party members in favour of focus groups and favourable headlines in the Murdoch papers. The election of Corbyn was a clear rejection of that style of leadership."


6. That rings true for me. To the bafflement and bemusement of many progressives, much of the strongest support for Brexit was in solidly working class areas.

7. Those progressives have done little to help their own cause by accusing those that voted Leave of being racists and xenophobes. Kind of forces people to say "Fuck you. You know nothing" rather than engaging. Give people room to move into or they will not move.

8. I've watched the months go by with increasing bemusement, and have come to realise that this is probably going to be remembered as a real watershed in British history, regardless of where we end up.

9. I have no clue where that will be. I know what I'd like to happen, but my preferred option (another referendum) is no more likely than any other. A request for an extension to article 50 now seems the most likely, but that's just kicking the can down the road.

10. The next few days are going to be interesting!

11. If there is another referendum, the same old bollocks that happened in 2016 will happen again. The same forces will line up against each other. UKIP, which after it's apotheosis became a shambolic nothing will reform, or some other party with the same reason for being will form. It's supporters will be branded "Racist" by vocal shallow progressives.

12. Nah. That'll do for now. I have a sink full of dishes to wash.

(edited for spelling and because I'd forgotten how to do links with words instead of big long URLs)
Captain Starlet
Captain Starlet
1110 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Mar 12, 2019, 21:16
Well, that was fun, will wait to see what happens tomorrow. I can't see a no-deal being accepted but then again I never thought leave would win either! I'd say my money's on revoke A50 or people's vote, but bit short of cash at the moment due to losing my job because of brexit!
Amil04
447 posts

Edited Mar 15, 2019, 16:25
Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Mar 13, 2019, 10:14
If someone told me that it was actually the EU behind the ‘Leave’ campaign..I could probably believe it.

It’s hardly in the spirit of two lovers who split but still have enormous love and respect for each other is it? It reminds me of the Miners Strike 84’ in that..perhaps coal wasn’t/isn’t the future but to destroy an industry like that was unforgivable. Slowly does it..if you’re going to do it at all. Maggie, and her ‘advisors’ were all for the EU..(‘reshaping’ the UK Coal Industry was part of EU policy? Along with many other British industries?) until she made her Bruges Speech where she began drawing her horns in..A year later she was out. (good riddance anyway) Replaced by another Bilderberger J. Major who would comply. If one is to believe what one hears about such as the Bilderburgers, they would have been planning this debacle years ago..a decade ago or more?
Nobody knew what they were voting for! Good in it’..”we want you to vote leave or remain...we’ll tell you what leave and remain mean after you’ve voted.” Out of this chaos they’ll come up with something new..a different order nobody wanted or feel it’s what they voted for whichever way they voted...not in the people’s interests. And that’s what all the distraction and dragging it out is for?
I voted leave (naively perhaps) thinking it might be an opportunity to change how politics operates..ie..not being hooked up to a sprawling ‘dictatorship’ that’s unable to account for billions!..(I wanted to find another word there.. but it went with ‘sprawling’ so well..) It was watching things like ‘The Brussels Business’ that tipped my vote, and looking back at the history of the setting up of the EU at the end of WWII. What was the original intention? Rhetorical.There’s nothing wrong with having a ‘Superstate’ as long as it’s not pretending to be something it isn’t?
Many people say we sold out some years ago..giving away the national sovereignty of this country.
I wouldn’t describe myself as a nationalist/royalist or a ‘kipper’ or anything of the sort. More..at least let’s have the ‘locals’ ripping us off..and not the unelected folk over the water. Better the devil you (think you) know?
The real ‘answers’ to this are not in the same terms to the questions being put. But we’ve got to go from where we are? Trying to clear the waters in my thoughts too..I appreciated what you’ve written..
Genuinely sorry to hear that CS...

“In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened you can bet we planned it that way”

F.D. Roosevelt.

....but there’s some debated as to whether he actually said that or not!

How on earth could we know?..it’s like a surgeon asking a hospital porter whether or not part of an organ should be removed..the porter suddenly having to gem up on surgical procedures.There’s far far too much information to hold in the mind..which will always be incomplete and when you make a decision based on incomplete knowledge..?..so one can’t help one’s vote being at least in part an emotional response..for many..which although has value..it needs a solid foundation. Emotions can be swayed. Facts are facts..if we can get at them.

They’re gonna do what they’re gonna do anyway..they just thought they ought to give the public a sniff of the debate? ie a ‘vote.’ I still psychologically ‘kick myself’ when I remember I voted for Blair.

Just some thoughts..none written in stone. I’ve no mind to fall out with anybody about it. I’ve come to respect equally, whichever way people voted. Because they’re victim of the same on going political deception as I am. There’s a power struggle at the top...prawns in the game.

I remember seeing Billy Bragg on the ‘Red Wedge’ tour..

Maggie’s Bruge Speech..even Maggie smelt a rat?..in her ‘own’ interests of course. Just somethin’ for the pot. Don’t know enough about the wider context.

https://youtu.be/D_XsSnivgNg

..an antidote.

https://youtu.be/rvYuoWyk8iU

It’s been said that the writers of ‘Yes Minister’ and ‘Yes Prime Minister’ actually wanted Paul Eddington to stand for parliament..they would write all his speeches. The idea was quickly abandoned however when they realised that they might just bring the whole thing crashing down...
Amil04
447 posts

Edited Mar 13, 2019, 13:26
Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Mar 13, 2019, 11:41
..this is a crass anolgy to make but isn’t being a member of the EU like having a supermarket loyalty card? You’ll get things cheaper..you’ll save money, but in who’s interests is it that you have one and use it in the long run? It’s not been set up for the customer..!? Can’t they get the same information off the tills!?

It might not be long till those cards have ‘proof of identity’ on them..

https://youtu.be/ZVYqB0uTKlE

“Euro Club ‘Tesco’ Express?”
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