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Jesus I despise Brexit.
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Edited Oct 04, 2018, 16:39
Re: Boris plays the race card
Oct 03, 2018, 13:58
Have been reading 'Under the Rock' by Benjamin Myers about life after he relocated from London to Mytholmroyd in West Yorkshire. The chapter where he describes the 2015 floods is particularly descriptive and moving. I think the following paragraphs may be relevant to what is being discussed here. My point being, when we pull together in adversity we are much, much better than toxic, coded propaganda.

"First on the scene is the Sikh charity Khalsa Aid, whose volunteers mobilised at the very first news reports of the floods yesterday morning. They arrive in mini-buses with shovels and buckets, and great vats of curry and dahl, and foil parcels of chapattis that they warm and serve around the clock for days. Hundreds more, they tell us are on their way up from London and the South-east.
Next come Muslim families bearing food parcels and blankets and a willingness to help in any way they can, and a group of young strong men from the hilltops around Sowerby Bridge – mechanics, farmers, all members of a Sunday League football team perhaps – and Syrian refugees from Manchester, who very recently fled a war zone, yet who still arrive not in ‘waves’ or ‘cockroach-like’, as the tabloid hate-speak would have it, but with smiles and energy and love. They pick up shovels and get to work ….

All is spoiled and sodden and rotten, but across the North it is a similar story. The charity the Ahmadiyya Muslim Youth Association send 350 further volunteers to thirty-eight of these towns and villages.
And people keep coming, of all stripes. We are left and right, brown and white, dyed-in-the-wool anarchists and ardent conservatives, working in quiet co-ordination, and as I straighten and stand to drink my tea, my boots half hidden by the mulch of hillside and moor, the stinking river bed levelling everything like a rotten, acrid carpet, I am suddenly struck by the completely ineffectual nature of party politics. Sometimes – when the situation demands it – people rally. They just do. Dogma goes out the window when flood waters rush in. There are no politicians here – they’ll come weeks and months later to have their pictures taken – there are no ethical debates, ugly elections or vicious bills to be passed. Just mud, spades, laughter, tea, grit, tears, strength and sympathy. Community."
8065 posts

Re: Boris plays the race card
Oct 03, 2018, 19:30
My point being, when we pull together in adversity we are much, much better than toxic, coded propaganda....

Indeed, but that's not in the code sadly.
447 posts

Re: Boris plays the race card
Oct 05, 2018, 22:35
Would it be true to say that whether we are either in or out of the EU the political system will still be corrupt to the core?

What is the difference in reality? In or out..is it just an IDEA?!
What better way to divide a country eh? That’s what it’s done.

We give a tiny minority the power..the power to think that they are important. We are endorsing a totally current political system by even thinking that what they are talking about is real. For example..What if nobody turned up to see the new ‘royal baby’ how important would William and his wife feel then? What would’ve happen if nobody voted? Am I being naive?

If you filled in your 2011 census online your personal data was collected by/went straight to the website of Lockheed Martin UK..one of the biggest arms manufactures on the globe. Top of the list of corrupt companies on some list or other. Did we all know that? No, we thought it was the ‘ ‘Crown’..LM uk now owns that information so if their was/is a data breach..no come back. Your information is not yours.
What’s going on? The world isn’t countries anymore, if it ever was..for the rich and powerful I mean...the idea of a country is a way of controlling people of that region...it’s corporations, boarderless empires now that invade and occupy your ‘public spaces’ and make them completely sterile. Some suggest the ‘ment’ in government has its root in the Latin for ‘mind’ as in ‘that’s what I meant’ I had that in ‘mind’ so...governing of the mind. Of which there is only one which we all ‘share’ but we are constantly told by media etc that we are individuals...with minds of our own.really? anybody that’s done some decent acid would maybe know this.

I think we should be asking a whole load of different questions other than the ones that are GIVEN us to ask.

8065 posts

Edited Oct 06, 2018, 08:09
Re: Boris plays the race card
Oct 05, 2018, 23:52
"Would it be true to say that whether we are either in or out of the EU the political system will still be corrupt to the core?"

Probably, but the one thing that will impinge on us all is that we're going to be a lot poorer - and not just in our pockets but in less spending on public services and welfare and health.
1618 posts

Edited Oct 06, 2018, 22:52
Re: Boris plays the race card
Oct 06, 2018, 22:40
Oi! Who are you calling a Juncker!?

That's all I got - read that one today about David Cameron's noble "we're not appeasing any affiliation with the Nazis this time, oh no we made that mistake last time",

so I read Wikipedia about the events between WWI and WWII
seeing as it's now Tory policy to remind people of all of that
so hurrah a coded playground 'your dad's got David Bowie "Herpes"' resulted in Brexit says I - only another 50 years of history to catch up on, maybe there's a box set

not least as a public mood guage i normally use HIGNFY as a sort of politeness barometer so I can tell how far below acceptable discourse my Grimbergen saturated mind has achieved the minimum level of synaptic activity capable to perform

"Oh look they did the dancing bit" ugh, bleeeygyrgurrghh

1618 posts

Edited Oct 07, 2018, 00:30
Re: Boris plays the race card
Oct 07, 2018, 00:10
Oh shit,

I've just realised I am cosmically the man responsible for Brexit.


Well, there was me in 2013 bored shitless and I accidentally found Stewart Lee's link to the "Is X Dead" website, and being the dutiful adherent to the Lee mythos I found The Queen as an option at 3%

and what with Morrissey looking like he'd let himself go I clicked on the graph

I clicked and I clicked and I clicked until the Is X Dead graph for The Queen read 52%

I'm so sorry, I had no idea such a simple website could sway the public vote so easily.

:( Kevin Spacey voiced Moon robot face is sad Cx


Second Referendum then
grufty jim
grufty jim
1978 posts

Edited Oct 10, 2018, 11:50
Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Oct 10, 2018, 11:49
I suspect it's not going to happen. There's talk that the EU will find a way to extend Article 50 until the end of May (when the EU parliamentary elections are held). But it's less to do with extending negotiations as it is about giving the UK enough time to hold a second referendum.

It's becoming apparent that -- no matter what deal Theresa May brings back from Brussels -- in all likelihood it will fail to pass the required UK parliamentary vote. That's purely down to the current state of UK politics and the "confidence & supply" agreement with the DUP. And while it's not guaranteed of course, the EU are aware there's a high chance of the UK having a General Election, a Tory Leadership contest, or a 2nd referendum (maybe all three!) in the next few months... and nobody wants to see the UK crash out with no deal just because internal tory chaos leaves the country without an effective government.

Extending Article 50 beyond May will present all sorts of legal challenges, but an extra couple of months should be enough for a change of government in Westminster and another referendum to cancel the whole thing. That's the thinking anyway.

The only alternatives at this stage are an almighty fudge or a crash out. In the fudge; the UK essentially remains a member in everything but name, staying within the jurisdiction of the ECJ and retaining access to the Customs Union (but without any say in how they're run and no representation at EU level). Oddly enough this would be acceptable to the DUP as it would prevent a differentiation between Northern Ireland and GB, but would not be acceptable to the tory right.

A crash out would be an unmitigated disaster. The vast majority of people now understand this. If it happens, it'll be by mistake I think.
8065 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Oct 10, 2018, 14:57
Agreed. I worry about a fudge though, with May claiming it's a negotiating triumph.
grufty jim
grufty jim
1978 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Oct 10, 2018, 15:39
I think a fudge will create internal political problems for the UK -- potentially for a decade or more -- but it won't cause the kind of serious economic problems that a "no deal" crash out would. (in my view)

From an Irish perspective, the "fudge" would cause minimal change / problems so obviously it's the best scenario for us (aside from a decision to Remain of course).

My guess is the fudge would last for a couple of parliaments until another referendum was held and the EU would allow the UK to rejoin on a "fast track" basis (after all, they never truly left, from a regulatory standpoint) but without the previous "perks" (rebates, opt-outs, etc.)

And my guess is that the UK will be ready to accept that by then.


Alternatively, the rise of populism combined with Climate Change, resource depletion and sheer bad luck will result in a global catastrophe that will rip Europe apart just as it rips through everywhere else.

So y'know... maybe by 2030 brexit will be seen as "not all that bad really... not compared to The Extinction Crisis anyway..."
8065 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Oct 10, 2018, 16:22
"And my guess is that the UK will be ready to accept that by then."

Wiser and much, much poorer.
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