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thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
6200 posts

Re: Another Election
Apr 21, 2017, 21:43
No, your citizenship comes from being a citizen of an EU member state. Your rights as an EU citizen don't depend on travelling anywhere (we're already in Europe). You can vote, you benefit from EU employment law and the other stuff in the treaty. Freedom to live and work in another member state is not the only benefit you have from being a European citizen.


From the TUC:

"In some areas where the EU has legislated the UK already had laws in
place such as equal pay, maternity rights, sex, disability and race discrimination, and health and safety. Even so, EU action in these areas has improved and extended rights and now underpins them, making it more difficult for the UK government to undermine them unilaterally.
In other areas, the UK had to legislate for the first time in response to EU requirements. In some cases laws that resulted directly from EU directives are now well accepted, for example around sexual orientation, age and religion or belief discrimination. But other rights would have been difficult to secure in the UK and would still be particularly vulnerable to attack if the UK were to vote to leave the EU. For example, UK governments strongly resisted equal treatment rights for agency workers, working time
limits, and rights for workers to receive information and be consulted on changes in their workplace that could affect their jobs or terms and conditions."

https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/UK%20employment%20rights%20and%20the%20EU.pdf

May is also keen to take us out of the European Convention on Human Rights, you didn't get to vote on that though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights
sanshee
sanshee
1080 posts

Edited Apr 21, 2017, 21:57
Re: Another Election
Apr 21, 2017, 21:52
The 'four freedoms' (don't it sound dreamy?) are considered as such:

Goods
Capital
Services
People

There ye go, 'people' are in the same category as insurance polices an microwaves.

Although an insurance policy or a microwave has more rights than I do.

Because 'I do not have a passport'.

Although I know the issue over passporting for financial services, but right now, they got more rights than me!

I can seek work and claim benefits anywhere in Britain as I am a British Citizen, or should I say, 'UK'. Never sure.

I do not need a passport to do so, I live in the 'Scotland' bit.

I DO need a passport to work and claim benefits in any other part of the EU.

Can't you see what I'm saying?
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
6200 posts

Re: Another Election
Apr 21, 2017, 22:02
I voted remain because I strongly believe that a united Europe will help prevent another war, not necessarily soon but some day.
I voted remain because the EU gives us fundamental human and employment rights that a Tory government would do everything they can to strip away without EU legislation to stop them.
I voted remain because the EU is our biggest trading partner and we would be idiots to think we will be better off financially outside the EU.
I voted remain because membership of the EU provides a framework to keep pressure on members to reduce carbon emissions, to keep environmental protections in place and to work towards sustainable energy. A Tory government unfettered by this will allow commercial interests to take precedence over environmental concerns.
I voted remain because I trusted the EU to do a better job of distributing the money it takes from member states than our government will. Wales and Cornwall have a shock coming.
I voted remain because I believe that we should have close ties with countries that share values of tolerance and that uphold human rights, rather than looking to places like Saudi Arabia as trading partners.
I voted remain because I believe that we need free movement of workers to staff our hospitals and carehomes, especially given the ageing British population.

You make it sound like a vote for what we already have (the above) is a bad thing. Some of your fellow leavers take it further, and label me an enemy of the people and a traitor.
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
6200 posts

Re: Another Election
Apr 21, 2017, 22:06
You do not need a passport to enjoy any of the employment rights or human rights we get from Europe. Being able to travel or work abroad is only one of the rights you have as an EU citizen.

As I said before, you said you weren't an EU citizen and had no EU rights, whether you have a passport is immaterial to those two things, you are an EU citizen and you have EU rights because you are a citizen of an EU member state. A passport is not relevant to your status or your rights.
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Another Election
Apr 22, 2017, 08:05
Excellent summary. Who could possibly deny it?
Thanks.

Plus, there's going to be a big cost for losing all that:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-04-21/the-eu-s-brexit-strategy-is-to-play-for-time?cmpid%3D=socialflow-facebook-brexit&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_content=brexit&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
tjj
tjj
3606 posts

Edited Apr 22, 2017, 10:32
Re: Another Election
Apr 22, 2017, 10:15
Inspiring stuff, Jeremy Corbyn working hard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVcHvwtEbts
Littlestone
Littlestone
5386 posts

Edited Apr 23, 2017, 22:35
Re: Another Election. National Holidays
Apr 23, 2017, 18:57
"A Labour government will seek to create four new UK-wide bank holidays on the patron saint's day of each of the home nations, Jeremy Corby has said."

Pathetic. Is this the best Labour can come up with? Sure we need more National Holidays but naming them after the four patron saints of the home nations! Really?

Some of these politicians don’t know what a box is, let alone be capable of thinking outside it. Other countries have loads more National Holidays than we do. In Japan for example National Holidays are held to celebrate things like the Spring Equinox, Respect for the Elderly Day, Culture Day, Children's Day, Sports Day (celebrated to promote the physical and mental health of people through sports), etc etc.

And we should stop calling them 'Bank Holidays' after what the banking riffraff did to us a few years ago! Though credit were credit's due to (Sir) John Lubbock who more-or-less kicked off the Bank Holiday tradition and who, among many good deeds, purchased Avebury in 1871 when the place was threatened with destruction.

More creative names for our National Holidays please.
drewbhoy
drewbhoy
2550 posts

Re: Another Election
Apr 24, 2017, 10:04
thesweetcheat wrote:
sanshee wrote:
Scotland's economy is tanking compared the that of the rest of the UK, has been since before the Brexit vote.
We've had SNP for 10 years now.
Wonder if there's a connection.


There's the rub though. On paper the UK economy might not be "tanking" but the reality for most people in England and Wales is very different. Food banks, child poverty, a deliberately screwed health service, overcrowded schools, zero hours contracts, scapegoating of non-white people (no, not just immigrants), terrible drugs and homelessness problems, stagnant wages, housing shortages. The English and Welsh economy is not tanking but it is certainly screwed. The rich get richer down here, everyone else certainly does not.


The companies involved blamed the Brexit vote and fear of the consequences. No mention of the SNP anywhere.
Ethericat
42 posts

Edited Apr 26, 2017, 11:19
Re: Another Election
Apr 26, 2017, 10:44
Nor me. You have raised many excellently observed points that I wholeheartedly agree with. Cultures should be preserved in mutual respect, tolerance, friendliness and openness. The final outcome of mass multiculturalism is monoculturalism. Native indigenous tribal peoples have suffered greatly in the past by mass absorption, and yet that seems to be conveniently forgotten by many on the 'official Left' who rightly shout for the rights of these people, and yet don't see the sad irony here in the bigger picture of the intended western global project. A lot of people with undoubtedly good intentions are being duped wholesale, I'm afraid, and the right don't give a fuck, nor pretend otherwise. All serpents on the same Medusa's head.

For me, the political system I could support with enthusiasm, and above all a clear conscience, does not as yet exist, but I do believe that one day it will. We will have no choice in the matter as it will be birthed out of the inevitable, in my view, collapse of the current ruling paradigm due to its insane collective greed and stupidity. Karma in action.
Littlestone
Littlestone
5386 posts

Re: Another Election
Apr 26, 2017, 22:32
Ethericat wrote:
Nor me. You have raised many excellently observed points that I wholeheartedly agree with. Cultures should be preserved in mutual respect, tolerance, friendliness and openness. The final outcome of mass multiculturalism is monoculturalism. Native indigenous tribal peoples have suffered greatly in the past by mass absorption, and yet that seems to be conveniently forgotten by many on the 'official Left' who rightly shout for the rights of these people, and yet don't see the sad irony here in the bigger picture of the intended western global project. A lot of people with undoubtedly good intentions are being duped wholesale, I'm afraid, and the right don't give a fuck, nor pretend otherwise. All serpents on the same Medusa's head.

For me, the political system I could support with enthusiasm, and above all a clear conscience, does not as yet exist, but I do believe that one day it will. We will have no choice in the matter as it will be birthed out of the inevitable, in my view, collapse of the current ruling paradigm due to its insane collective greed and stupidity. Karma in action.


Thanks Ethericat.

Couldn’t agree with you more, and I especially agree with your statement that, “The final outcome of mass multiculturalism is monoculturalism.”

Couldn’t have put it better. And you know, it’s not only cultures that are under threat from political and corporate unions like the EU, the banks and the mega-food, drink and drug companies, but also how we educate and are educated. The blandness of it all is depressing. There is hope however, and the current backlash against the big national and international rip-off merchants is nothing new. Until CAMRA came along real beers in this country had hit rock bottom. People were totally pissed off with it (literally), but saw a way to do something about it, and now there are craft beers in most pubs and micro-brewery's everywhere (same thing happened with sake production in Japan). I know that’s a simple example but it does go to show that we do have the will to change the direction of travel from bland uniformity to something so much more interesting and creative.

As you say, “...collapse of the current ruling paradigm due to its insane collective greed and stupidity.” is indeed inevitable. “Karma in action.” Yup!
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