thesweetcheat
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Re: Kill them!
May 21, 2017, 21:34
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They didn't implement the ban. It was promised explicitly in the 2015 manifesto but not delivered by the time the government was dissolved. The 2017 manifesto does not repeat the intention and no government is bound to implement anything a previous government promised. Therefore the intention to implement a ban is dropped.
But still, Brexit eh? Even Boris doesn’t know what's in the Tory manifesto, as he proved this morning.
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Sanctuary
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Edited May 21, 2017, 21:46
Re: Kill them!
May 21, 2017, 21:45
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thesweetcheat wrote: Therefore the intention to implement a ban is dropped.
Bollocks tsc- do you make it up as you go along? Show us all the proof that the intention is to drop it. No guessing that it is going to happen, real proof.
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thesweetcheat
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Edited May 21, 2017, 21:58
Re: Kill them!
May 21, 2017, 21:57
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Sigh. I've just told you. The ban was not implemented. The links you posted yourself make it clear that the government intended to "consult" on a ban. No ban was implemented - I don't even know if they got as far as the promised consultation. The comments you copied are nonsensical as nothing was implemented at all.
I don't make up parliamentary sovereignty, no. Parliament was dissolved a couple of weeks ago and had not passed a law implementing a ban. The new Tory manifesto does not have the express promise the 2015 one did. Do you think this was accidental? They are not bound by anything the previous government promised, and since the ban was not implemented they don't even have to expressly repeal it, they can simply not do it. The new manifesto states what they are planning to do if elected, and there is no mention of an ivory ban.
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Sanctuary
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Re: Kill them!
May 21, 2017, 22:06
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thesweetcheat wrote: Sigh. I've just told you. The ban was not implemented. The links you posted yourself make it clear that the government intended to "consult" on a ban. No ban was implemented - I don't even know if they got as far as the promised consultation. The comments you copied are nonsensical as nothing was implemented at all.
I don't make up parliamentary sovereignty, no. Parliament was dissolved a couple of weeks ago and had not passed a law implementing a ban. The new Tory manifesto does not have the express promise the 2015 one did. Do you think this was accidental? They are not bound by anything the previous government promised, and since the ban was not implemented they don't even have to expressly repeal it, they can simply not do it. The new manifesto states what they are planning to do if elected, and there is no mention of an ivory ban.
Okay I got it - you can't prove it but it won't stop you spreading the poison that they are likely to. Top man.
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thesweetcheat
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Re: Kill them!
May 21, 2017, 22:11
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What don't you get? There is no ban. They didn't implement it. They are no longer committing to do so. It's not there. It's been dropped from their own manifesto.
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Sanctuary
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Re: Kill them!
May 21, 2017, 23:39
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thesweetcheat wrote: What don't you get? There is no ban. They didn't implement it. They are no longer committing to do so. It's not there. It's been dropped from their own manifesto.
Just not mentioned, prove that it's been dropped. Not EVERYTHING is or has to be mentioned if it has already been discussed and agreed but not yet finalised. Show me where they have said quite clearly in print that they are dropping it please and no more stalling. It's a simple question.
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thesweetcheat
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Re: Kill them!
May 22, 2017, 05:58
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"Discussed or agreed" means nothing. Even if a ban had got as far as draft legislation (which it hadn't) May's decision to dissolve Parliament would have meant it would have lapsed. It didn't get that far.
In the previous manifesto it was a specific pledge. It's not in the new one, they are no longer promising to do it if re-elected. I think most people would accept that as common use of the word "dropped". Why would they not keep something in that they promised to do before, if they intended to go through with it? It was a deliberate decision not to include it. You are also aware that the president of one of the most powerful groups lobbying to stop the ban happening is/was a Tory MP I assume.
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nigelswift
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Re: Kill them!
May 22, 2017, 07:13
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The new manifesto left out "many things already implemented" (I guess that's true - Abolition of Slavery for one), or "about to be" - no, that's an interpretation-of-convenience: the true definiition of a manifesto (as opposed to the definition we're being asked to accept on this forum) is "a public declaration of intentions".
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Sanctuary
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Re: Kill them!
May 22, 2017, 08:06
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thesweetcheat wrote: "Discussed or agreed" means nothing. Even if a ban had got as far as draft legislation (which it hadn't) May's decision to dissolve Parliament would have meant it would have lapsed. It didn't get that far.
In the previous manifesto it was a specific pledge. It's not in the new one, they are no longer promising to do it if re-elected. I think most people would accept that as common use of the word "dropped". Why would they not keep something in that they promised to do before, if they intended to go through with it? It was a deliberate decision not to include it. You are also aware that the president of one of the most powerful groups lobbying to stop the ban happening is/was a Tory MP I assume.
Fail.
'However, any explicit mention of ivory is conspicuously absent from the new manifesto. In its place May’s manifesto includes a general pledge to help international organisations protect the marine environment and endangered species around the world'.
Isn't the elephant an endangered species then? They haven't dropped the promise at all just altered the wording to include all animals at risk. Quite simple to understand unless you are running a vendetta of hatred against a person or party.
https://mediavor.com/theresa-may-drops-ivory-ban-from-conservative-party-manifesto/
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Sanctuary
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Re: Kill them!
May 22, 2017, 08:10
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nigelswift wrote: The new manifesto left out "many things already implemented" (I guess that's true - Abolition of Slavery for one), or "about to be" - no, that's an interpretation-of-convenience: the true definiition of a manifesto (as opposed to the definition we're being asked to accept on this forum) is "a public declaration of intentions".
Nigel, as I've just replied tsc...
'However, any explicit mention of ivory is conspicuously absent from the new manifesto. In its place May’s manifesto includes a general pledge to help international organisations protect the marine environment and endangered species around the world'.
Isn't the elephant an endangered species then? They haven't dropped the promise at all just altered the wording to include all animals at risk. Quite simple unless you are running a vendetta of hatred against a person or party.
https://mediavor.com/theresa-may-drops-ivory-ban-from-conservative-party-manifesto/
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