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Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4670 posts

Re: Another Election
May 05, 2017, 11:23
The nation have spoken locally...

Of course they are all idiots who have been brainwashed again LOL

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/theresa-may-gets-huge-surge-local-elections-disatrous-night-labour-ukip-073253644.html
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Another Election
May 05, 2017, 11:26
Rhiannon wrote:
I can't see how a country that imagines itself civilised (i.e. America) doesn't look after the health of its poorest and most vulnerable

Yes, well, Lady Liberty says " “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" to which now might be added: "so long as your breathing difficulty isn't a pre-existing condition as you'll get no help with that, sunshine". ;)

Rhiannon wrote:
I hope you are well. It's a beautiful day out there.

Well enough to sit out at the front in the sun and chew the fat with every village passer by, which is as good as it gets for someone of my age (even though a lot of them are Brexiters, bless 'em).

Rhiannon wrote:
The world is really mad and I'm starting to realise it might not get any better.
There's always a pendulum. One day Trump and May will be seen as a Bad Thing by every one of their voters!
Rhiannon
5290 posts

Re: Another Election
May 05, 2017, 12:01
"so long as your breathing difficulty isn't a pre-existing condition as you'll get no help with that, sunshine". that's very good :)

".. for someone of my age" - tch

"One day Trump and May will be seen as a Bad Thing by every one of their voters!" Very possibly but not until after they've buggered everything up. which is a bit of a shame. ah well.
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Another Election
May 05, 2017, 12:18
Rhiannon wrote:
but not until after they've buggered everything up.


I guess one day most of Trump's damage can and will be mended but not May's though. The 2027 Euro Re-Application - by an impoverished Britain with no bargaining chips and a degraded health and social care structure and sub standard human rights will take some spinning as a triumphant consequence of 2017.
Littlestone
Littlestone
5386 posts

Edited May 05, 2017, 12:47
Re: Another Election
May 05, 2017, 12:45
Sanctuary wrote:
The nation have spoken locally...

Of course they are all idiots who have been brainwashed again LOL

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/theresa-may-gets-huge-surge-local-elections-disatrous-night-labour-ukip-073253644.html


What annoys me is that things have gone down hill under both Tory and Labour governments.

I honestly think we need to radically rethink how we do politics in this country. Maybe it’s already happening to some extent through social media. But, for example, I’d like to see the 100,000 figure (before an issue is debated in Parliament) dropped to 50,000. Proportional Representation of course, and also more referendums as in Switzerland (one already held there this year and three more scheduled for 21 May, 24 September, and 26 November 2017).

I guess the majority of politicians don’t want any of that though – it’d be putting to much power in the hands of the people!
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
6200 posts

Re: Another Election
May 05, 2017, 13:36
Littlestone wrote:
I honestly think we need to radically rethink how we do politics in this country. Maybe it’s already happening to some extent through social media. But, for example, I’d like to see the 100,000 figure (before an issue is debated in Parliament) dropped to 50,000. Proportional Representation of course, and also more referendums as in Switzerland (one already held there this year and three more scheduled for 21 May, 24 September, and 26 November 2017).

I guess the majority of politicians don’t want any of that though – it’d be putting to much power in the hands of the people!


Agreed on all of that (apart from maybe the need for more referenda :) )

We certainly need proportional representation if there's to be any real change. I've not seen all the results yet, but the West of England mayor caught my eye this morning. Elected with about 27% of the vote, so almost 3/4 of voters didn't vote for him, but that's what you get with first past the post, immediately making the majority of voters wondering why they bothered. As I said elsewhere in the thread, PR also tends to increase the number of female politicians, and female politicians tend to be more willing to work across party lines so politics becomes less adversarial and more co-operative. PR also reduces the short term nature of many politicians' thinking, where all they are really concerned about is grabbing votes and keeping their party in control, rather than doing the right thing (that's true on both left and right).

Social media can be too much of a bubble unfortunately. On this thread I've mainly engaged with the people I disagree with, on the basis that to only discuss with those who agree with you on everything leads to an echo chamber and it's easy to believe everyone thinks like you do.
Rhiannon
5290 posts

Re: Another Election
May 05, 2017, 13:41
But don't forget, she would be willing to press the button in a pre-emptive nuclear strike. That must be what being strong and stable is all about. Let's just hope she and Trump don't get too carried away.
Rhiannon
5290 posts

Re: Another Election
May 05, 2017, 13:44
To disagree with you as I feel I should -

The west of england mayor wasn't exactly FPTP, it involved a count of second choice votes.

which is a tiny bit better (not that it helped in this case)

have you seen the straw-drawing here
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/05/lib-dem-and-tory-candidates-draw-straws-in-northumberland-vote
it decided the colour of the whole council
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
6200 posts

Re: Another Election
May 05, 2017, 13:50
Yes, fair point that it wasn't pure FPTP. The result still leaves 3/4 of the voters with the candidate they didn't vote for though.

Maybe if you have to have FPTP it should be the candidate with a minimum of 51%, otherwise you re-run leaving out the candidates with the lowest overall votes.
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Another Election
May 05, 2017, 13:59
As you know, there are true PR systems and then there are faux ones which are neither proportional nor representative. No prizes for guessing which the Tories allowed a vote on and which ones they never will.

We are prisoners of a system which favours the majority and requires the assent of the majority to change. Not like Brexit where a single vote by a single person would have been enough to totally blow up our Constitution.
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