Head To Head
Log In
Register
U-Know! Forum »
Another Election
Log In to post a reply

Pages: 37 – [ Previous | 115 16 17 18 19 20 | Next ]
Topic View: Flat | Threaded
John Rice
John Rice
38 posts

Re: Hate is a cul-de-sac
May 01, 2017, 18:35
nigelswift wrote:
Yes, I get the point, strengthening her against the extremists. Trouble is, won't we end up with what the extremists want anyway, whatever the parliamentary arithmetic?


Yeah. Probably. The whole thing is a disaster IMO. Michael Heseltine recently described brexit as "by far the worst decision Britain has made since World War II". Which means if you're debating or arguing with someone who is pro-brexit, it can often mean you're talking to someone who is more conservative, more protectionist, more isolationist and more nationalist than fricking Heseltine! You're not going to change their minds. At least I don't think you are.

And so... I look for silver linings where I can. And the fact that a larger majority will add flexibility to the British negotiating position is one such silver lining. Even if I doubt May will actually make use of that flexibility.
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Hate is a cul-de-sac
May 01, 2017, 18:49
Well, the messages coming out of Europe is that she's on another planet and ill prepared. That doesn't bode well for a true negotiation, more a scenario where they tell us what will happen and she won't be able to sell it at home. I guess next we'll be treated to massive demonisation of Europe, to cover for the fact we've been led into what was always going to be a disaster.

I saw Heseltine saying that. He's all you say, but didn't he look good in comparison with the scrappy pygmies now leading us to no-one knows where?
John Rice
John Rice
38 posts

Re: Hate is a cul-de-sac
May 01, 2017, 18:54
nigelswift wrote:
I saw Heseltine saying that. He's all you say, but didn't he look good in comparison with the scrappy pygmies now leading us to no-one knows where?

The demonisation of Europe has alredy begun and will get worse. And it's so bloody self-defeating, it really is.

And yes, if one thing has brought the enormity of the crisis in British politics home to me, it's been the vague twinge of nostalgia I get when I hear Heseltine or Ken Clarke speak on this issue. You really know the current lot are bad when they make those monsters of the past seem positively reasonable by comparison.
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Hate is a cul-de-sac
May 01, 2017, 19:09
But they both ARE reasonable on this issue. In fact rational. That's the measure of how far we've drifted.
drewbhoy
drewbhoy
2550 posts

Re: Another Election
May 01, 2017, 20:26
Littlestone wrote:
drewbhoy wrote:
Why is May terrified of Sturgeon?


I wasn’t aware that she is drew – they seem pretty evenly matched to me, but I’d be interested to read your sources for that if you have them handy.


Sturgeon was in my home town in the North East of Scotland today and May went Crathie and spoke in the wee village hall to a selected audience. Nuff said really.
Littlestone
Littlestone
5386 posts

Edited May 01, 2017, 22:31
Re: Another Election
May 01, 2017, 22:23
drewbhoy wrote:
Littlestone wrote:
drewbhoy wrote:
Why is May terrified of Sturgeon?


I wasn’t aware that she is drew – they seem pretty evenly matched to me, but I’d be interested to read your sources for that if you have them handy.


Sturgeon was in my home town in the North East of Scotland today and May went Crathie and spoke in the wee village hall to a selected audience. Nuff said really.


Hmmm... not really ‘nuff said' drew. How many times have May and Sturgeon been campaigning in the same place at the same time? Like most politicians they tend to avoid each other like the plague during election time. Hardly enough to assume, from that one example, that May is ‘terrified’ of Sturgeon. It’s a start, however, if we can find other examples. :-)
Littlestone
Littlestone
5386 posts

Edited May 02, 2017, 12:47
Re: Another Election
May 02, 2017, 12:44
Littlestone wrote:
Diane Abbott as Home Secretary? I think not, the woman can barely string two words together to make a coherent sentence.


I rest my case. http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=20&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjehsXEkdHTAhUMCcAKHd_GBBoQFghxMBM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lbc.co.uk%2Fradio%2Fpresenters%2Fnick-ferrari%2Fdiane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost%2F&usg=AFQjCNHVBvXDTJSpmDN2E6_SpvS8aBEKLQ
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
6200 posts

Re: Another Election
May 02, 2017, 18:06
She got it wrong. But still a good policy to replace police when the Tories have cut their numbers by about 20,000.
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
6200 posts

Re: Another Election
May 02, 2017, 18:31
Keeping it brief if I can.

My dad spend a lot if time in the 50s/60s in Yugoslavia and said it was a powder keg of racial, nationalist and religious tension back then. The EU is not a peacekeeping force for non-EU countries (despite scaremongering by Leave over the prospect of an EU army) - my original comment was about it uniting the member states in an unprecedented peace, rather than preventing wider conflicts. I doubt anything the EU could have done would have prevented what happened in Yugoslavia, which was probably the uneasiest union of disparate countries and religions the continent had seen.

The Jungle was a terrible thing but again look at the causes, Western interference and military aggression in the countries where the refugees came from. The EU as an organisation did not decide to bomb Syria or invade Libya and Iraq. IS was not caused by the EU. A mess was made of homing the refugees, but the EU did not create the problem and again it has nothing to with my original point about promoting peace between member states.

As for May's record. She was a terrible Home Secretary. Poverty, homelessness, foodbank use and suicide all soared on her watch. She slashed the police force while trying to scrap human rights laws. And as for her chosen cabinet of chief Brexiteers - would you trust David Davies to successfully get to the shops for a pint of milk, let alone represent the interests of Britain? I'd trust a competent professional like Kier Starmer over Davies, Fox and Johnson all day long.

Actually if she is telling the truth about the necessity of pulling together behind her on negotiations, she should scrap this election and form a cross-party cabinet of the best and most able politicians to deal with Brexit, then dissolve parliament once the negotiations are concluded and go to the country with the negotiated deal. If it really is the most serious challenge to Britain since WW2, why not treat it like that? The reason is because she is pushing the interests of the Conservative party over the interests of the country, especially given the expenses investigations that have the potential to wipe out her majority.

As an aside, two of the Leave voters on this forum are in Scotland and I wonder if they feel May and the Conservatives offer the best alternative for delivering the kind of Brexit they would like to see?
Littlestone
Littlestone
5386 posts

Edited May 02, 2017, 18:48
Re: Another Election
May 02, 2017, 18:47
thesweetcheat wrote:
She got it wrong.


Oh please, it wasn’t just ‘getting it wrong’, and anyone who seriously thinks Diane Abbott is Home Secretary material is living in Fantasy World. Can you really see her on the international stage coming up against the likes of Putin, Trump or Xi Jinping. Like Boris she’s a bumbling incompetent; they should get together and form the Bumbling Party for second-rate politicians.

She’ll probably survive this faux pas (unless she resigns) until the election because she’s got Corbyn’s support. If Labour loses I bet ya she’ll be out as shadow Home Secretary pronto. If Labour wins odds on she’ll be shuffled and become Minister for Women and Equalities or summat.
Pages: 37 – [ Previous | 115 16 17 18 19 20 | Next ] Add a reply to this topic

U-Know! Forum Index