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nigelswift 8112 posts |
May 01, 2017, 11:19
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"it must be more than self delusion, it has to be a deliberate ignoring of an inconvenient truth because there is some advantage to themselves" That's what I meant really. Deliberate self delusion for personal advantage. No other explanation, given the Tory record.
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drewbhoy 2553 posts |
May 01, 2017, 13:56
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thesweetcheat wrote: Have you seen May hiding in the woods on your travels? Hiding down in Crathie and nobody answered their doors :-) (She wouldn't dare venture north of the Don!!!)
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drewbhoy 2553 posts |
May 01, 2017, 14:00
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thesweetcheat wrote: My thinking on that is simply that May didn't need to call the election for Brexit. She has a majority, Labour have made it clear they won't block her and she said to Sturgeon that the country does not need the uncertainty of another vote (in the context of IndyRef2 obviously). She has simply seen this as an opportunity to exploit a weak opposition trailing in the polls and give herself five years with a bigger majority to push through her real agenda. We already know from her time as Home Secretary that she is intent on reducing rights and freedoms and giving greater powers to the security services. The Telegraph is now pushing the need to scrap clean energy policies in favour of cheap because that's what we need in post-Brexit Britain apparently. The NHS is dying on its feet as tjj's stark post shows all too clearly. To my mind this is simply opportunism, Brexit has presented the opportunity to redraw the balance and to legitimise many long-desired Tory policies on the basis of post-Brexit necessity. Our ability to negotiate with EU27 will not be affected by the size of May's majority, but rather by the ineptness of Davies et al. The other issue lurking in the background is the ongoing investigations into Tory election fraud during GE2015, this represents an opportunity to bury that too. [edited for typos] When IndyRef1 was decided it was promised that if Scotland stupidly Voted No it would stay in the EU. I only ask the British Govt to keep its vow. They will say the EU ref decided things but there was no mention of that in the IndyRef so they are liars until proved otherwise.
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drewbhoy 2553 posts |
May 01, 2017, 14:02
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Why is May terrified of Sturgeon?
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
May 01, 2017, 15:02
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"Theresa May is deluding herself over Brexit, the EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker claimed after a disastrous Downing Street dinner last week. German newspaper FAZ today printed a devastating insider account of the meeting between the Prime Minister and Juncker last Wednesday."
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John Rice 38 posts |
May 01, 2017, 17:18
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nigelswift wrote: Our ability to negotiate with EU27 will not be affected by the size of May's majority.... I'm not sure it's quite so simple. Hear me out, I'm anti-brexit and anti-tory. This is a case of seeking a silver lining; not a case of celebrating the cloud. It's true that the size of the tory majority is irrelevant in the strict context of the EU-Britain negotiations. However, it is not irrelevant when it comes to setting the British negotiating position, and it won't be irrelevant if May finds herself needing to make concessions in order to minimise the damage of brexit. Right now, a tiny number of tory MPs, in tandem with the Ulster Unionists, can hold Theresa May hostage. Unless Britain pursues a hardline brexit path, they can threaten to withdraw their support and bring down the government. With a larger tory majority, this kind of parliamentary blackmail will be *much* harder to organise. Of course; I'd much rather no tory majority at all. Right now that doesn't seem likely, but we can always hope. So perhaps the worst of all possibilities is what we have now -- a slim but workable tory majority that only holds together so long as the PM keeps the tory hardliners and Unionists on side. And perhaps May increasing that majority slightly would be better than the current situation? I promise to wash my mouth out with soap after I finish here for even suggesting such a thing, and it's just a devil's advocate thought-experiment. But worth thinking about all the same.
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Jeez 98 posts |
May 01, 2017, 17:33
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thesweetcheat wrote: I genuinely struggle to understand why people do not think that this is how a just and fair society should operate, or why people vote Tory in the full knowledge that doing so increases inequality as the few get better off at the expense of the many. It's easy to understand. People are quite selfish - you can see this every time you drive anywhere in a car - people cut you up, push in front of you, won't let you pull out etc. They know they can't really be seen and their incognito status means they can escape censure. This is what happens when they get behind the curtain in a polling booth, and why the polls repeatedly underestimate the amount of votes for the Tories. People behave selfishly and vote for what they think are their own interests, although most are mistaken. Group-think brainwashing is common practice in this country. We have the most right wing press in a developed nation, but everyone thinks that The Sun speaks for the working man because it graciously entertains the workers with football reports and a pair of tits every day. There is virtually no chance of working people voting for their real interests because they have been spoonfed that the Tories have saved the economy from Labour, they will reduce immigration, we need nuclear weapons and Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser who can't lead his party let alone the country. Besides - those public school types are natural born leaders anyway and remember the Looney Left? Thatcher saved us from that lot in the 80s. Theresa May is a bit like Thatcher ain't she?
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
May 01, 2017, 17:45
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Yes, I get the point, strengthening her against the extremists. Trouble is, won't we end up with what the extremists want anyway, whatever the parliamentary arithmetic?
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
May 01, 2017, 17:54
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People are quite selfish..... Yes they often are, and yes they vote for their self-interest in the privacy of the polling booth. But most of them? I hope not. I'd like to think most Tory voters are more deluded than wicked (and many are poor, remember) and fall for the endless fiction that Conservatism creates a bigger pie so the poor get less poor that way. Of course, the first half of that is true and then the shits DON'T cut the bigger pie fairly. In my pretty long life I've seen that tragedy play over and over.
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
May 01, 2017, 18:09
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drewbhoy wrote: Why is May terrified of Sturgeon? I wasn’t aware that she is drew – they seem pretty evenly matched to me, but I’d be interested to read your sources for that if you have them handy.
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