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IanB 6761 posts |
Nov 14, 2015, 18:32
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Popel Vooje wrote: thispoison wrote: On a night like this I'd happily see every Mosque in Europe bulldozed. Not that people - being people - wouldn't find other excuses to slaughter each other en masse of course... Quite. Nationalism being the second most popular justification for the unjustifiable.
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billding68 1016 posts |
Nov 14, 2015, 18:40
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Sin Agog wrote: 'O you who believe, no people shall ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or make fun of your names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. Anyone who does not repent after this, these are the transgressors.' “Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, or curtails their rights, or burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment.” 'To you be your religion, to me be mine.' “…There is no compulsion in religion…” “You cannot guide those you would like to but God guides those He wills. He has best knowledge of the guided.” 'Certainly, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Sabians, and the Christians, whoever acknowledges God and the Last Day and does good, will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve. ' “This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by God! I hold out against anything that displeases them. No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray. Their churches are declared to be protected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).” Don't start with the quotes I will pull up dozens that condone the killing of infidels and frankly I'm cooking dinner for my kids and can't be bothered right now. You know as well as I that these exist in the Koran much more than in any other holy book. If you challenge me on this I will provide them, but you know as well as I they are there. Islam more than any religion in modern times wishes to send the world to an era before Christ basically to the stone age . But again perhaps we should sit back and let it happen...btw where are all the righteous Islamic groups protesting these attacks right now?
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Captain Starlet 1110 posts |
Nov 14, 2015, 18:45
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billding68 wrote: where are all the righteous Islamic groups protesting these attacks right now? http://tribune.com.pk/story/991351/muslims-all-over-the-world-condemn-terrorism-express-solidarity-with-french/
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billding68 1016 posts |
Nov 14, 2015, 19:29
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Captain Starlet wrote: billding68 wrote: where are all the righteous Islamic groups protesting these attacks right now? http://tribune.com.pk/story/991351/muslims-all-over-the-world-condemn-terrorism-express-solidarity-with-french/ not exactly a demonstration by the people is it?
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Nov 14, 2015, 19:41
Nov 14, 2015, 19:41
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carol27 wrote: billding68 wrote: carol27 wrote: thispoison wrote: On a night like this I'd happily see every Mosque in Europe bulldozed. Maybe a more measured response later. Maybe... Overall, though, I am with Julian in his hatred of Islam. Not a view I have come to without some soul-searching. Sorry if that offends any well-meaning but impotent liberals in these parts. Not that I side with our glorious political leaders and their actions in the Middle East which have made their own unique and malign contribution to current events. But I was over in Paris in 1995, and Islamic terrorists were killing people there even then. Well before 9/11 and the subsequent invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. Plus ça change. Jihadi John died far too painlessly. Hilariously, I have heard that Jeremy Corbyn would have preferred his arrest and trial. Words fail me on that view... BTW, the ones to feel sorry for are the poor bastards who just went out on a Friday night to enjoy themselves and didn't make it home. And their families and friends. So, what do you suggest we do? Abolish Islam from the Western world completely. Islam is not a faith of peace but of Aggression. Islam teaches to lay in wait until the time is right and destroy your enemy at any cost. Islam teaches that those who submit to Allah's will and sacrifice themselves will be rewarded. Islam is a cancer. Would the western world be worse off if Islam was no longer a threat? Give them Somalia, build a wall around it, and let them destroy themselves. Sorry I don't actually know how to begin responding to that. I remember angry people here back in the 70s saying the exact same thing about Northern Ireland in the aftermath of some new atrocity perpetrated by one side or the other. Made no sense then. Makes even less sense in this case given that this is a borderless conflict. Look at where the funding comes from and start there. Though I don't remember anyone here in that era baying for the RAF to bomb Boston or Philadelphia in retaliation for US contributions to Noraid. I would steer away from stigmatising a billion and half plus individuals who like you and I are just trying to get by. We know exactly where that train of thought ends if it gains momentum.
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Captain Starlet 1110 posts |
Nov 14, 2015, 19:55
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They couldn't have to comment about anything! Where's the apology for Christian atrocities in the past? Does the church/Pope need to apologise for Westboro or the KKK? I think it's an atrocious and irrelevant point to suggest that muslim groups have a duty to speak out, it displays a huge level of double standards and hypocrisy here in the west that people feel that Muslims should be speaking out. Well the truth is they are, there's countless posts on social media from Muslims basically being apologetic for something that's nothing to do with them, there's Muslim leaders around the world condemning these attacks, because if they don't come idiot's going to accuse them of not doing enough and (most likely) supporting terrorism! Problem with you saying that it's not enough is when will you decide what's enough? I seriously doubt anything will be because you've already made your mind up to be anti Islam. So I could post a hundred links on here and you'll ay the same thing! So, as a non Christian can I have my apology for Britain First, IRA, the Inquisition, the Crusades...?
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carol27 747 posts |
Nov 14, 2015, 20:02
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IanB wrote: carol27 wrote: billding68 wrote: carol27 wrote: thispoison wrote: On a night like this I'd happily see every Mosque in Europe bulldozed. Maybe a more measured response later. Maybe... Overall, though, I am with Julian in his hatred of Islam. Not a view I have come to without some soul-searching. Sorry if that offends any well-meaning but impotent liberals in these parts. Not that I side with our glorious political leaders and their actions in the Middle East which have made their own unique and malign contribution to current events. But I was over in Paris in 1995, and Islamic terrorists were killing people there even then. Well before 9/11 and the subsequent invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. Plus ça change. Jihadi John died far too painlessly. Hilariously, I have heard that Jeremy Corbyn would have preferred his arrest and trial. Words fail me on that view... BTW, the ones to feel sorry for are the poor bastards who just went out on a Friday night to enjoy themselves and didn't make it home. And their families and friends. So, what do you suggest we do? Abolish Islam from the Western world completely. Islam is not a faith of peace but of Aggression. Islam teaches to lay in wait until the time is right and destroy your enemy at any cost. Islam teaches that those who submit to Allah's will and sacrifice themselves will be rewarded. Islam is a cancer. Would the western world be worse off if Islam was no longer a threat? Give them Somalia, build a wall around it, and let them destroy themselves. Sorry I don't actually know how to begin responding to that. I remember angry people here back in the 70s saying the exact same thing about Northern Ireland in the aftermath of some new atrocity perpetrated by one side or the other. Made no sense then. Makes even less sense in this case given that this is a borderless conflict. Look at where the funding comes from and start there. Though I don't remember anyone here in that era baying for the RAF to bomb Boston or Philadelphia in retaliation for US contributions to Noraid. I would steer away from stigmatising a billion and half plus individuals who like you and I are just trying to get by. We know exactly where that train of thought ends if it gains momentum. I was just thinking that. Round people up, put them on trains, hold them in camps....
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Sin Agog 2253 posts |
Edited Nov 14, 2015, 20:43
Nov 14, 2015, 20:42
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carol27 wrote: IanB wrote: carol27 wrote: billding68 wrote: carol27 wrote: thispoison wrote: On a night like this I'd happily see every Mosque in Europe bulldozed. Maybe a more measured response later. Maybe... Overall, though, I am with Julian in his hatred of Islam. Not a view I have come to without some soul-searching. Sorry if that offends any well-meaning but impotent liberals in these parts. Not that I side with our glorious political leaders and their actions in the Middle East which have made their own unique and malign contribution to current events. But I was over in Paris in 1995, and Islamic terrorists were killing people there even then. Well before 9/11 and the subsequent invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. Plus ça change. Jihadi John died far too painlessly. Hilariously, I have heard that Jeremy Corbyn would have preferred his arrest and trial. Words fail me on that view... BTW, the ones to feel sorry for are the poor bastards who just went out on a Friday night to enjoy themselves and didn't make it home. And their families and friends. So, what do you suggest we do? Abolish Islam from the Western world completely. Islam is not a faith of peace but of Aggression. Islam teaches to lay in wait until the time is right and destroy your enemy at any cost. Islam teaches that those who submit to Allah's will and sacrifice themselves will be rewarded. Islam is a cancer. Would the western world be worse off if Islam was no longer a threat? Give them Somalia, build a wall around it, and let them destroy themselves. Sorry I don't actually know how to begin responding to that. I remember angry people here back in the 70s saying the exact same thing about Northern Ireland in the aftermath of some new atrocity perpetrated by one side or the other. Made no sense then. Makes even less sense in this case given that this is a borderless conflict. Look at where the funding comes from and start there. Though I don't remember anyone here in that era baying for the RAF to bomb Boston or Philadelphia in retaliation for US contributions to Noraid. I would steer away from stigmatising a billion and half plus individuals who like you and I are just trying to get by. We know exactly where that train of thought ends if it gains momentum. I was just thinking that. Round people up, put them on trains, hold them in camps.... Sounds like my clan's Annual Family Vacation to Pontins. Except I'm sure that involves more torture. And gas if Aunty Nora's coming.
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billding68 1016 posts |
Nov 14, 2015, 21:26
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Sin Agog wrote: carol27 wrote: IanB wrote: carol27 wrote: billding68 wrote: carol27 wrote: thispoison wrote: On a night like this I'd happily see every Mosque in Europe bulldozed. Maybe a more measured response later. Maybe... Overall, though, I am with Julian in his hatred of Islam. Not a view I have come to without some soul-searching. Sorry if that offends any well-meaning but impotent liberals in these parts. Not that I side with our glorious political leaders and their actions in the Middle East which have made their own unique and malign contribution to current events. But I was over in Paris in 1995, and Islamic terrorists were killing people there even then. Well before 9/11 and the subsequent invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. Plus ça change. Jihadi John died far too painlessly. Hilariously, I have heard that Jeremy Corbyn would have preferred his arrest and trial. Words fail me on that view... BTW, the ones to feel sorry for are the poor bastards who just went out on a Friday night to enjoy themselves and didn't make it home. And their families and friends. So, what do you suggest we do? Abolish Islam from the Western world completely. Islam is not a faith of peace but of Aggression. Islam teaches to lay in wait until the time is right and destroy your enemy at any cost. Islam teaches that those who submit to Allah's will and sacrifice themselves will be rewarded. Islam is a cancer. Would the western world be worse off if Islam was no longer a threat? Give them Somalia, build a wall around it, and let them destroy themselves. Sorry I don't actually know how to begin responding to that. I remember angry people here back in the 70s saying the exact same thing about Northern Ireland in the aftermath of some new atrocity perpetrated by one side or the other. Made no sense then. Makes even less sense in this case given that this is a borderless conflict. Look at where the funding comes from and start there. Though I don't remember anyone here in that era baying for the RAF to bomb Boston or Philadelphia in retaliation for US contributions to Noraid. I would steer away from stigmatising a billion and half plus individuals who like you and I are just trying to get by. We know exactly where that train of thought ends if it gains momentum. I was just thinking that. Round people up, put them on trains, hold them in camps.... Sounds like my clan's Annual Family Vacation to Pontins. Except I'm sure that involves more torture. And gas if Aunty Nora's coming. So what youre is a billion people cant be wrong? um...yes they can. where are the billions (minus the handful of "radicals" now?) Why are there not a billion or so people not taking to the streets in protest? in the western world we track down our criminals in a very timely fashion and bring them to justice..why does the Boko Haram exist? why does the Taliban Exist? why does Isis exist? Why don't they take care of their shit? because they agree with it, that's why.
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Nov 14, 2015, 22:06
Nov 14, 2015, 22:00
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billding68 wrote: So what youre is a billion people cant be wrong? um...yes they can. where are the billions (minus the handful of "radicals" now?) Why are there not a billion or so people not taking to the streets in protest? in the western world we track down our criminals in a very timely fashion and bring them to justice..why does the Boko Haram exist? why does the Taliban Exist? why does Isis exist? Why don't they take care of their shit? because they agree with it, that's why. That's not a very smart argument. Unless you are a Daniel Goldhagen kind of a guy. Which I now suspect you might be. And where does your argument leave Anders Breivik or Eric Rudolph or Timothy McVeigh? They were all representing and acting on views held by a much larger constituency than a single person. Weren't all of those guys on a religious crusade of one kind or another? Where were all the anti-gay and anti-abortion and anti-immigration goons after those atrocities? Where was their demonstration of atonement? Don't tell me. Those three guys were all "crazy" so it doesn't count as terrorism.
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