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drewbhoy
drewbhoy
2508 posts

Re: Jeremy Corbyn
Jul 14, 2015, 09:40
Although I vote Greens, Sturgeon (SNP)would have outclassed, outkinded and outcared Thatcher by a long way.
grufty jim
grufty jim
1978 posts

Re: Jeremy Corbyn
Jul 14, 2015, 09:52
drewbhoy wrote:
... Sturgeon (SNP)would have outclassed, outkinded and outcared Thatcher by a long way.


Yeah, but in fairness so would the bloody Terminator.
drewbhoy
drewbhoy
2508 posts

Re: Jeremy Corbyn
Jul 14, 2015, 09:58
grufty jim wrote:
drewbhoy wrote:
... Sturgeon (SNP)would have outclassed, outkinded and outcared Thatcher by a long way.


Yeah, but in fairness so would the bloody Terminator.


Ha ha ha, very very true :-)
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
6034 posts

Re: Jeremy Corbyn
Jul 14, 2015, 12:54
Hahaha!
PMM
PMM
3137 posts

Re: Jeremy Corbyn
Jul 15, 2015, 23:49
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11741659/Jeremy-Corbyn-set-to-win-Labour-leadership-shock-poll-reveals.html
Sin Agog
Sin Agog
2279 posts

Re: Jeremy Corbyn
Jul 16, 2015, 00:34
Aw, he was my gran's favourite ever politician before she died (I grew up in Islington). Here's hoping he ends up being a real phoenix from the ashes. What were the odds that one of the last true socialists in Labour's roster would come this close to leading the bloody party? Not...what I expected at all. I figured a political businessman/woman was a shoe-in for the Labour leadership.
carol27
747 posts

Edited Jul 16, 2015, 11:42
Re: Jeremy Corbyn
Jul 16, 2015, 11:40
Sin Agog wrote:
Aw, he was my gran's favourite ever politician before she died (I grew up in Islington). Here's hoping he ends up being a real phoenix from the ashes. What were the odds that one of the last true socialists in Labour's roster would come this close to leading the bloody party? Not...what I expected at all. I figured a political businessman/woman was a shoe-in for the Labour leadership.


Well we should activate & get behind him. I'm sick of hearing that the general public won't accept him, like Michael Foot, or even Ed Milliband. Comparisons to Derek Hatton; the negative Tory backlash - via the Telegraph et al has started already; advocating its readers join the Labour party at a newly reduced rate & vote for Jeremy cos it'll ruin the Labour party forever,cos nobody will vote for such a "radical" left winger. Since when did a humanist become a "radical"? And, what's wrong with radical anyway?
What a hold the Tories have, manipulating us all like a bunch of puppet masters. Are we puppets? Of course they're more worried about Andy Burnham who they think may be electable, being a bland yes sayer; but Jeremy is dangerous,lets make him a joke. Make no mistake they want to decimate the Labour party.Remember Michael Foot at the Cenotaph? Remember Tony Benn?
Anyway I'm preaching to the converted. Should maybe get off my arse & campaign instead of ranting on here.
grufty jim
grufty jim
1978 posts

Edited Jul 16, 2015, 12:38
Re: Jeremy Corbyn
Jul 16, 2015, 12:38
Corbyn is far from the radical left-winger he's being portrayed as (particularly by The Telegraph) but he is probably about as far left as it's possible to get today and still be part of the political mainstream.

Which is a sad indictment of modern political discourse as opposed to an endorsement of Corbyn!

That said, I sincerely hope he gets elected as Labour leader as it is only by taking a first step in that direction that the leftward path will ever be rediscovered. By becoming leader, Corbyn could begin shifting the centre. Space to the left of him will open up as a legitimate position and The Greens might even find themselves as part of the mainstream discussion (in the eyes of the media, that is... arguably a large part of the public already takes them fairly seriously).

I am a little concerned though that there simply might not be enough like-minded people left within the Labour Party (at MP level) to form a united shadow cabinet. And with an army of Blairites on his back-benches briefing against him at every opportunity, he might struggle to be an effective party leader.

I'm also concerned that the UK public has already moved so far rightward that they might buy into "loony left" nonsense peddled by The Mail and The Telegraph. I am (sadly) of the opinion that large groups of people can be indoctrinated and manipulated far easier than most assume. I think the ideology of the free market has been forcefully rammed down our throats in subtle (and not so subtle) ways for more than a generation now. And I think that's worked.

Which is why the most terrifying analysis of the UK 2015 election results, for me, was looking at the number of people who voted Tory + UKIP + LibDem (i.e. unambiguously right wing). And that was during an election where the main opposition, Labour, was offering a manifesto that was Centre Right at best.

If Corbyn becomes Labour leader I think there's a strong possibility he could split the party (with a number of the more right wing Labour figures moving into the decimated LibDems, who badly need the influx right now). That may not be a bad thing in the medium-to-long term, but it will guarantee a Tory government for the next decade.
carol27
747 posts

Re: Jeremy Corbyn
Jul 16, 2015, 13:08
grufty jim wrote:
Corbyn is far from the radical left-winger he's being portrayed as (particularly by The Telegraph) but he is probably about as far left as it's possible to get today and still be part of the political mainstream.

Which is a sad indictment of modern political discourse as opposed to an endorsement of Corbyn!

That said, I sincerely hope he gets elected as Labour leader as it is only by taking a first step in that direction that the leftward path will ever be rediscovered. By becoming leader, Corbyn could begin shifting the centre. Space to the left of him will open up as a legitimate position and The Greens might even find themselves as part of the mainstream discussion (in the eyes of the media, that is... arguably a large part of the public already takes them fairly seriously).

I am a little concerned though that there simply might not be enough like-minded people left within the Labour Party (at MP level) to form a united shadow cabinet. And with an army of Blairites on his back-benches briefing against him at every opportunity, he might struggle to be an effective party leader.

I'm also concerned that the UK public has already moved so far rightward that they might buy into "loony left" nonsense peddled by The Mail and The Telegraph. I am (sadly) of the opinion that large groups of people can be indoctrinated and manipulated far easier than most assume. I think the ideology of the free market has been forcefully rammed down our throats in subtle (and not so subtle) ways for more than a generation now. And I think that's worked.

Which is why the most terrifying analysis of the UK 2015 election results, for me, was looking at the number of people who voted Tory + UKIP + LibDem (i.e. unambiguously right wing). And that was during an election where the main opposition, Labour, was offering a manifesto that was Centre Right at best.

If Corbyn becomes Labour leader I think there's a strong possibility he could split the party (with a number of the more right wing Labour figures moving into the decimated LibDems, who badly need the influx right now). That may not be a bad thing in the medium-to-long term, but it will guarantee a Tory government for the next decade.


How fantastic a reply is that. Cynical, but probably true. What do we do?
IanB
IanB
6761 posts

Edited Jul 16, 2015, 16:22
Re: Jeremy Corbyn
Jul 16, 2015, 16:13
Surely a split is exactly what is needed. Our biggest problem is the chorus of dissenting voices on the right of the party from people who wouldn't know Zinn from Zebedee.

Across Europe centre left parties are being guided slowly but surely onto the rocks as voters lose faith in their willingness (let alone ability) to reverse austerity.

A split in Labour would cut out the neo-SDP folks leaving them to contest that fatal no man's land with the Tories while a leaner meaner left faction of the Labour party occupies it's true place on the spectrum.

If Real Labour (as I am going to call it) get say 65 seats to start with in 2020 then the left will be able to bring far more influence to bear as a large minority party than when trapped in this crazy neo-liberal hall of mirrors with Labours' very own band of cynical centrist careerists.

Expel the liberals, save the party.
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