Squid Tempest
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Re: CS Gas at Peaceful Protest
Feb 01, 2011, 09:05
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If the police can't keep control over a couple of peaceful protestors without resorting to what is essentially chemical warfare, they shouldn't be in their jobs.
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Vybik Jon
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Edited Feb 01, 2011, 13:20
Re: CS Gas at Peaceful Protest
Feb 01, 2011, 13:15
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EDIT: I can't be arsed.
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Lawrence
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Re: CS Gas at Peaceful Protest
Feb 01, 2011, 13:28
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Take it from a Tory to say something extremely stupid. But that would figure anyways...
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Merrick
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Re: CS Gas at Peaceful Protest
Feb 01, 2011, 19:29
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geoffrey_prime wrote: If folks are trying to resist/stop arrests..then they are asking for trouble.
Are you really saying that if someone disobeys a police officer then anything that officer does to them is OK?
Have you seen the video? The use of spray was not on anyone who was in any way a threat.
There is an issue of proportionality you're failing to acknowledge, even before we come to the justice of a given protest's cause and methods set against the police's role of defend the target.
geoffrey_prime wrote: As a taxpayer, I don't want to be paying the bills for the damage / havoc some protesting marches will create
In this instance we're talking about an arrest for putting leaflets through a door. A door to Boots which was so not under attack that staff members treated those attacked with CS spray.
Even if we ignore the justice element and just go with your tory pounds and pence vision, what do you think the comparative costs are of arresting and detaining someone versus not doing so and permitting the 'havoc' that ensues when they put a leaflet through a door?
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Merrick
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Re: CS Gas at Peaceful Protest
Feb 01, 2011, 19:34
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I remember being with you at that Reclaim The Streets. Spray was still unusual in those days. The cops used spray on a few people as the party was being set up and threatened many more. By the time the media arrived, the cops were denying they'd even had sprays with them and the media dutifully repeated the line.
These days the cops wouldn't be able to lie like that, and the media would find the phone footage a lot more newsworthy that a police press release. The ground is shifting under our feet.
Talking of which, check this baby out. Mindblowing.
http://sukey.org/
with a tutorial here
http://sukey.org/tutorial
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geoffrey_prime
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Re: CS Gas at Peaceful Protest
Feb 01, 2011, 20:00
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Merrick wrote: geoffrey_prime wrote: If folks are trying to resist/stop arrests..then they are asking for trouble.
Are you really saying that if someone disobeys a police officer then anything that officer does to them is OK?
NO!
Have you seen the video? The use of spray was not on anyone who was in any way a threat.
I said, anyone resisting arrest is asking for trouble.. In this case the Police may have been unjustified in doing what they did. I wasn't there to see it, but if the protesters and/or witnesses feel they have a case, they should lodge a formal complaint.
There is an issue of proportionality you're failing to acknowledge, even before we come to the justice of a given protest's cause and methods set against the police's role of defend the target.
YES! I agree with you, I was making a wider point. Police response to any situation should be proportionate.
geoffrey_prime wrote: As a taxpayer, I don't want to be paying the bills for the damage / havoc some protesting marches will create
In this instance we're talking about an arrest for putting leaflets through a door. A door to Boots which was so not under attack that staff members treated those attacked with CS spray.
I was making a general point. I agree, in this case, the bill to the taxpayer is not a concern
Even if we ignore the justice element and just go with your tory pounds and pence vision, what do you think the comparative costs are of arresting and detaining someone versus not doing so and permitting the 'havoc' that ensues when they put a leaflet through a door?
I think we agree. I want to see people protesting peacefully and where there are protests I want to see the police protecting the non-protesting general public and public buildings, monuments etc.
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Merrick
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Re: CS Gas at Peaceful Protest
Feb 02, 2011, 17:00
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Sorry that I got the wrong end of the stick there, Geoffers.
it's just that, to my mind, the line
geoffrey_prime wrote: If folks are trying to resist/stop arrests..then they are asking for trouble.
has connotations to it. 'Asking for trouble' implies that they kind of deserve it, that they don't really have grounds for objecting.
geoffrey_prime wrote: if the protesters and/or witnesses feel they have a case, they should lodge a formal complaint.
The complaint would be investigated by the police. In other news, Kenny Dalglish is to be referee for Chelsea's match against Liverpool on Sunday, which is to be held behind closed doors witnessed only by Dalglish and officials and board members from Liverpool FC.
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grufty jim
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Re: CS Gas at Peaceful Protest
Feb 02, 2011, 18:05
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Merrick wrote: The complaint would be investigated by the police. In other news, Kenny Dalglish is to be referee for Chelsea's match against Liverpool on Sunday, which is to be held behind closed doors witnessed only by Dalglish and officials and board members from Liverpool FC.
Probably still end up with more impartial decisions than at most Man Utd matches.
ba-dum-tish!
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geoffrey_prime
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Re: CS Gas at Peaceful Protest
Feb 03, 2011, 02:37
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Hi Merrick, I know I should learn, that whatever I say, you will take a left spin on it. Maybe I am "out of touch", but I think on my "generalist" points, they do pass the "man on the clapham omnibus" test.
That said, I do enjoy following the board... but appreciate I am in a minority.
I would hope that at some point you might feel inclined to recognise the good public service, that in many cases is provided and funded by government. I would also be interested to know, whether or not you feel the Police are doing a good job and working in favour of the citizen?
I have taken a second look at the several videos (via Youtube) covering the CS Gas incident in question.
My overiding view is that the protest is intimidatory, obstructive and there is clear verbal abuse to the Police. I don't see this as "peaceful protest"...but I haven't seen anything (on video) that supports the use of CS gas/pepper spray either.
As I wasn't there, I would recommend that if anyone did consider the Police response inappropriate, they should make a formal complaint.
I presume, if there is a case to answer, there will be witnesses - protestors and Boots employees, at least?
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geoffrey_prime
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Re: CS Gas at Peaceful Protest
Feb 03, 2011, 02:41
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You guys are soooo cynical. It really does obscure any reasonable arguments you may make, for the middle-right of centre punter.
Also, although not a "fanatic", through my partner, I do favour Man U...oddly enough.
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