pooley
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Re: Public Sector Workers - Reality Check
Jul 10, 2010, 12:27
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Hi pmm. Am doing this on iPad and it is hugely difficult. So forgive me if I don't answer all your points.
Maybe not in this thread, but merrick does say that all police are compromised agents of the state. It is me and maybe a few others who have been saying some individual cops are bad, and some are good. So we agree on that
Yes they do follow orders, and protect some laws they don believe in. That's ten job I'm afraid. I work cow a publisher, we publish a lot of books i think are iffy. Should I say I won't work on them?? What if the postie disagrees with junk mail, should he refuse to post it? A wonderful way to hand in your notice
nd as I have said before, it is crazy to expect the police to believe in every law they uphold- you would have to change the entire force every time a law is changed
As for the protesters causing trouble thing. It wasn't merrick who suggested they didn't exist, but someone did. I think it is in this thread. They said they didn't exist, and then said they were sidelined in same sentence. I will find it, if you don't just not when I am on iPad lovely machine, but not great for this kind of thing
I do know what an agent provocateur is. It's two things, and one of them is a fantastic get our clause to pert d violent protesters don't exist. I'm sure both happen.
Finally thank you for taking the time to argue this properly, and not jest shout abuse. Far too little of that on here these days. You are a gent
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pooley
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Re: Public Sector Workers - Reality Check
Jul 10, 2010, 12:41
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Jesus wept the iPad is hard to type on. In that last post I soun d like gazza on real radio. I'm sure you get the general idea though
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pooley
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Re: Public Sector Workers - Reality Check
Jul 10, 2010, 12:50
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It was stray. No surprise there. Page seven of this thread, half way down. Tells me that these kind of protesters are in my head, then says they get ignored by real protesters. In the same sentence!!! Brilliant!!!!!
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PMM
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Edited Jul 10, 2010, 16:16
Re: Public Sector Workers - Reality Check
Jul 10, 2010, 16:08
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In my experience, the protestors police themselves.
When I posted the wiki link to "agent provocateurs" I was careful to link it specifically to an example, in Canada.
here's what it wrote: On August 20, 2007, three protesters in Montebello, Canada during meetings of the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America were discovered to be police provocateurs by Dave Coles, president of the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada. The entire incident was filmed and posted on YouTube before being picked up by the mainstream media. The video shows three masked men, one of whom was armed with a large rock, being confronted by peaceful protesters. After the men breached the police line, they were brought to the ground, handcuffed, and taken away. Photographs revealed that their boot-tread matched that of the arresting officers. Although they at first denied that the individuals in question were agents provocateurs, the Sûreté du Québec issued a news release on August 23 admitting that the three protesters were, in fact, police officers.
The article then wrote: Another common tactic is to infiltrate legitimate demonstrations in the attempt to stir widespread violence and rioting, seen most recently in a spring anti-Iraq war gathering in Vancouver, Canada. This has become so commonplace that sources within activist organizations have told STRATFOR they police their own demonstrations to prevent infiltration by fringe groups.
STRATFOR, by the way, are a well respected analysis site.
So throughout this thread, and in other similar threads before it, you've expressed a view that some protestors are out looking for trouble. I think that's actually very rare. As stray pointed out, the media love to paint a picture of protestors as being violent troublemakers, and the police use violence as an excuse for violence themselves.
Again, please note, I'm not talking about the bobby on the beat. The orders come from much higher up.
Protestors have nothing to gain from violence. It deters ordinary people from getting involved. It leads to an escalation, and the forces of the state have infinitely more resources with which to fight. And it destroys the legitimacy of the protestors aims.
So every time a peaceful demonstration turns into something else, rather than taking account of the issues, ordinary people like you and me say "look at those idiots"
And your posts prove the tactic works.
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pooley
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Re: Public Sector Workers - Reality Check
Jul 10, 2010, 16:26
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Are you seriously saying that protesters never purposely cause trouble?? Like throwing stones through bank windows?? Like knocking polucemans helmets of to get a reaction? Like looting when a protest turns? Like hitting out at a policeman and then standing back to make it look like someone else did it, therefore ensuring some innocent gets clobbered??
You're not saying that are you? Because I have been there and seen much worse.
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CraigR
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Re: Public Sector Workers - Reality Check
Jul 10, 2010, 16:32
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Here; http://www.headheritage.co.uk/headtohead/u_know/topic/58468/threaded/738451
Here; http://www.headheritage.co.uk/headtohead/u_know/topic/58468/threaded/738380
Here; http://www.headheritage.co.uk/headtohead/u_know/topic/58468/threaded/739167
Here; http://www.headheritage.co.uk/headtohead/u_know/topic/58468/threaded/739594
And best of all, getting your information from Wikifuckingpedia, then agreeing with it. Absolutely hilarious!
http://www.headheritage.co.uk/headtohead/u_know/topic/58468/threaded/738505
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PMM
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Edited Jul 10, 2010, 16:35
Re: Public Sector Workers - Reality Check
Jul 10, 2010, 16:34
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I said it was "very rare". You changed that to "never".
Please stop trying to label me as an absolutist. I'm being very careful with my words.
"protestors" live their lives. They're ordinary people. They go to work in banks and shops and offices. They go shopping at the local co-op. Why on earth would they suddenly turn into dickheads?
Why? What's the incentive? We have nothing to gain and everything to lose.
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pooley
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Re: Public Sector Workers - Reality Check
Jul 10, 2010, 16:39
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Sorry to have misquoted you. I'm not sure what the point is. But I have seen people kick off in a most extra ordinary fashion. Bit of blood goes to the head, tempers get frayed, see an enemy who you can take it out on... That works for both sides.
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PMM
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Re: Public Sector Workers - Reality Check
Jul 10, 2010, 16:41
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So what did you think of the merrick article I linked to?
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pooley
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Re: Public Sector Workers - Reality Check
Jul 10, 2010, 17:03
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PMM wrote: So what did you think of the merrick article I linked to?
To be honest, I haven't looked at it yet. But I will and let you know
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