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zphage
zphage
3378 posts

Re: our racist prince
Jan 12, 2009, 16:44
Wiggy wrote:
Glad to hear it didn't all end up in Boston harbour.=;o)


actually that created a heady brew of kombucha
handofdave
handofdave
3515 posts

Re: our racist prince
Jan 12, 2009, 17:00
Wiggy wrote:
Glad to hear it didn't all end up in Boston harbour.=;o)


Everything else ended up in Boston Harbor.

"Well I love that dirty water..."
Shelby Mustang
Shelby Mustang
605 posts

Re: our racist prince
Jan 12, 2009, 22:18
i couldn't bring myself to reply to his middle england twaddle the dude. but mate i would just like to heartily concur with you.

i'd also like to point out to the conservative voting pro maggie eejit that i don't fucking do PC
grufty jim
grufty jim
1978 posts

Edited Jan 13, 2009, 00:06
Re: our racist prince
Jan 13, 2009, 00:04
geoffrey_prime wrote:
Well, let me offer some support, he is my prince.

If that over-privileged ignoramous represents your idea of leadership (leadership by divine right no less... 'cos when all's said and done, that's ultimately the only "legitimacy" they have to fall back on), then you have my deepest sympathies.

geoffrey_prime wrote:
I hope we can hear from the perosn who was being referenced in this so called racist assault. If they were happy for this personal nickname to be used, then, obviously, this is another media "whip up".

As I understand it, Harry was making a specific reference to a specific colleague/friend... not a generic reference, which I agree would be racist.

Well then you understand it rather badly. The 'Paki' thing? I guess that may well have been a specific reference. It still reeks of the sort of casual racism that totally riles me, but that's a personal thing.

"Raghead", on the other hand, was most definitely generic and is something that goes much deeper. When he says of a mate with camo-gear on his head; "you look like a raghead", it's pretty clear that this is a guy who is used to thinking of -- and referring to -- Afghans and Pakistanis as "ragheads". He wouldn't use that particular phrase unless that was the case.

Which isn't to say that I don't understand it. If you're a member of the UK or US armed forces at the moment (as Harry is / was) then you are essentially part of a large conspiracy to dehumanise Islamic brown people from Central Asia. Go back 40 years and it was communist brown people from South East Asia -- or 'gooks'. Go back another 30 and it was white Germans -- or 'krauts'. And so on and so forth. That's one of the necessary functions of any military -- the dehumanisation of the targets. It must be done in order to reduce resistance to, and anxiety about, killing them.

On the one hand it shouldn't surprise anyone. On the other, it's a vile practice that demonstrates yet another reason why militarism needs to be opposed. It's not hard to understand of course, but saying "he's racist because he failed to overcome the prejudices of his environment" doesn't actually make him less racist. It merely demonstrates why he's racist.

But look, as Tim Leary said, "racism is the water through which we all swim". It's all around us, it infuses our culture and seeps into us however hard we try to resist. But at least some of us do our damndest to swim against the current. Harry appears to revel in being swept along. And I find that problematic in anyone -- let alone someone that people (you at least) look to for leadership.

And that's without even touching on what he meant when he asked a fellow soldier, "How do you feel? Gay? Queer on the side?" Without the context, I would not automatically assume the comments demonstrate a homophobic attitude. But it makes you wonder.

Again, I have no doubt that casual homophobia is rampant in the military. But that doesn't actually mean those involved aren't nasty bigots.

geoffrey_prime wrote:
As a secondary point, I am really disappointed at how quickly people now jump on the "pc bandwagon"... even on this site...

PC bandwagon? You mean objecting when Afghans are referred to as ragheads? I would have thought that's just basic human decency. But if you insist it's some kind of PC bandwagon, then I'm happy to be aboard it.

geoffrey_prime wrote:
We should really challenge the media..

Damn straight! But while we're at it, we can probably spare a wee bit of time to challenge racist aristocrats.
shanshee_allures
2563 posts

Re: our racist prince
Jan 13, 2009, 09:41
grufty jim wrote:

Go back 40 years and it was communist brown people from South East Asia -- or 'gooks'. Go back another 30 and it was white Germans -- or 'krauts'. And so on and so forth.


Damn, you gone and mentioned the 'k' word!

Don't worry though, as soon as someone says 'our prince' or any of that bollox I have nothing more to say to them really (we'd never get along), but it does raise the old 'this word can be used here but not there' thingie. Words get reclaimed, recontextualised, re-excused and exonerated etc.

FWIW, I beleive Harry was being no more than a full on ignoramus like his 'folks', if they are indeed that:-)

x
grufty jim
grufty jim
1978 posts

Edited Jan 13, 2009, 09:58
Re: our racist prince
Jan 13, 2009, 09:58
shanshee_allures wrote:
Damn, you gone and mentioned the 'k' word!

Don't worry though, as soon as someone says 'our prince' or any of that bollox I have nothing more to say to them really (we'd never get along), but it does raise the old 'this word can be used here but not there' thingie. Words get reclaimed, recontextualised, re-excused and exonerated etc.

Indeed they do. But when it's a member of the British armed forces talking about Afghan people in the current climate, then one can hardly talk about reclaimation or recontextualization. The context is blindingly obvious... it's the standard military dehumanisation thing.
shanshee_allures
2563 posts

Edited Jan 13, 2009, 10:05
Re: our racist prince
Jan 13, 2009, 10:05
I wasn't saying it could be recontextualised in his case at all. And I've made it clear I detest he and all he stands for.
He was quite obviously speaking about one particular person, that can't be argued re the accompanying camera swirl, but the level of his 'malice' can. That does not mean I defend him, I find expressions like that base, but there has been loads of 'certain words are plain unacceptable' bounded around re the matter. Quite clearly certain words are never *plainly* unacceptable 'sall I'm saying!

x
geoffrey_prime
geoffrey_prime
758 posts

Re: our racist prince
Jan 13, 2009, 13:21
moi?
geoffrey_prime
geoffrey_prime
758 posts

Re: our racist prince
Jan 13, 2009, 13:26
I can take most things "dude"...but I am offended that you might think I read the Mail - I dont, I detest the rag...and all it stands for.
geoffrey_prime
geoffrey_prime
758 posts

Re: our racist prince
Jan 13, 2009, 13:27
Fuck you very much too - do you know my ethnic background?
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