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It's Too Fucking Good For Him...
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Wiggy
1696 posts

Re: It's Too Fucking Good For Him...
Dec 16, 2008, 12:04
Well, that really was a can of worms.
I suppose if anyone harmed my kid (or probably any of the kids I know) I would want to find them and do them serious harm - in fact, given the chance there is a high probability that I would actually do it. However, that doesn't make it right, and that's why we have (in theory at least) impartial arbiters of justice in the form of the courts etc.

At the moment only a forensic psychologist can really tell us if this was a revenge attack, but I doubt it. More likely it's the work of a bunch low lives who've seen the chance to take out all the frustrations of their sh*tty existence while making themselves feel morally superior for perhaps the first time in their lives.
shanshee_allures
2563 posts

Re: It's Too Fucking Good For Him...
Dec 16, 2008, 13:51
grufty jim wrote:

Interestingly, it does seem possible for people who adopt children when they are still infants to develop a very similar bond which suggests that it may be as much a factor of the succoring / dependency relationship as it is of biology, though there's still quite a lot of disagreement on that.



My partner was adopted, and there were cultural differences between him and those (now deceased) who adopted him, which sort of gave him clues as they didn't really bother to include him in what that meant very much.

Unfortunately, they didn't tell him he was adopted either, he was left to figure it out for himself, but regardless he always says more than not there was always something 'missing'.

I think it can be possible for adoptive parents to develop a bond in that birth parent way simply through bringing the child up and all that entails.
It's bound to go on all the time.

Suppose the difficulty can lie in the very fact that the topic always has the potential to come up. It never goes away. Like a dad who later finds out his kids aren't his. I can't imagine what imapct that could have.
x
grufty jim
grufty jim
1978 posts

Re: It's Too Fucking Good For Him...
Dec 16, 2008, 19:32
shanshee_allures wrote:
My partner was adopted, and there were cultural differences between him and those (now deceased) who adopted him, which sort of gave him clues as they didn't really bother to include him in what that meant very much.

Unfortunately, they didn't tell him he was adopted either, he was left to figure it out for himself, but regardless he always says more than not there was always something 'missing'.

I think it can be possible for adoptive parents to develop a bond in that birth parent way simply through bringing the child up and all that entails.
It's bound to go on all the time.

Suppose the difficulty can lie in the very fact that the topic always has the potential to come up. It never goes away. Like a dad who later finds out his kids aren't his. I can't imagine what imapct that could have.
x

I wasn't suggesting that all adoptions go smoothly, but it does seem that the majority of people who adopt very young children succeed in establishing a normal parental bond with the child.

Of course, there are exceptions. But then, there are also plenty of (very sad) cases in which biological parents completely fail to establish a bond with their offspring.
shanshee_allures
2563 posts

Re: It's Too Fucking Good For Him...
Dec 16, 2008, 20:12
grufty jim wrote:

But then, there are also plenty of (very sad) cases in which biological parents completely fail to establish a bond with their offspring.



Yes, too much. Depresses the hell out of me. And sometimes its born out of a general contempt for the poor wee blighters in the first place.

If you instinctively don't want kids, you really should do your best to go with that instinct.

x
Merrick
Merrick
2148 posts

Re: It's Too Fucking Good For Him...
Dec 17, 2008, 10:18
shanshee_allures wrote:
If you instinctively don't want kids, you really should do your best to go with that instinct.


Fuckin A!

There's such a strong push for people to have children, those of us who choose not to (especially women because they're like, y'know, naturally more nurturing and stuff) are frequently patronised. 'Well yes, you think that now, but you'll see when your biological clock starts ticking', said in the same tone used to patronise adolescent fads.

When I was thinking about having a vasectomy I asked a number of friends for their thoughts and advice. One was pretty freaked out, saying 'what if you changed your mind later on?'.

Hell, what about the flipside, people who have kids and then change their mind? You can't stuff them back up yourself and make them go away.

In the end I got the snip, and my friend completely came around to supporting it. She said it was just that she'd never met anyone who realised they'd be bad at being a parent *before* becoming one.
shanshee_allures
2563 posts

Re: It's Too Fucking Good For Him...
Dec 17, 2008, 19:22
I got that from family members for a while.
Aged about 26, some would say 'well, when you gonna have one?'

Perhaps sometimes girls who end up 'stuck 'far too young are fed this one too much also.

But I had no job, no boyfriend, a new address every other month and I didn't even feel like having a kid would fill any need in me at all.

Of course all's changed for me but I'm quite a bit older.

I really do applaud you for knowing your own mind. Hope that doesn't sound partronising! I mean it, the more people realise that 'kids ain't for them' the better. Would reduce all sorts of suffering I reckon.


:-)

x
cHARLIE
cHARLIE
2607 posts

Edited Dec 18, 2008, 14:27
Re: An Idiot For An Idiot
Dec 18, 2008, 13:11
hmmmmmmm?
Tone Stone was the only person I can read on this subject who really let rip with the eye for an eye point of view Jon (even tho I seemed to have been put in the same box as ToneStone?) .... every one else including *myself* are philosophical about revenge regarding child abusers.

Its just that, not everyone holds the ... turn the other cheek values that you seem to be promoting, thats all. Most of the folks on here like your self are careful and very philosophical, however this is a tricky subject that effects us all in a variety of ways. I will openly admit I am angry about sex crime against children. Why? Cus I have seen at first hand the destruction it causes to the lives of the individuals/victims involved.

We are mostly thinkers here dude, which (regardless of Julain Infatuations and his fantastic music and books) is what makes this site kind of special. Don't you think?


8O)
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: An Idiot For An Idiot
Dec 18, 2008, 14:31
Hi Charlie,
You shouldn't beat yourself up over being "tempted". I would too, if someone did something unspeakable to one of my kids. So would everyone, except maybe J. Christ, Ghandi and a couple of others.
All it means is that our veneer of civilisation is wafer thin and only cerebral - and in extremis we revert to the natural reactions, gut ones, of our pre-civilisation ancestors.

Would I go further than being tempted if things were unspeakable enough? I don't know, I might. A lot of people do in wars. Do I feel ashamed that I might? No way, it's how we are. We aren't entirely "thinking" creatures. Would I think it was wrong if I did? Sure, but that's just the thinking kicking in, which is easy until something awful happens.
Vybik Jon
Vybik Jon
7717 posts

Re: An Idiot For An Idiot
Dec 18, 2008, 14:35
Fear not, cHARLIE, I got your point last time and I feel somewhat chastened. This applies to ToneStone too.

You're right, it's about different viewpoints. Some I can understand, others I never will. I didn't mean to cause hurt.

My original response to the 'Eye For An Eye' post was slightly tongue in cheek.
ToneStone
ToneStone
1768 posts

Re: It's Too Fucking Good For Him...
Dec 18, 2008, 15:45
CLASSIC ROFFLE
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