|
U-Know! Forum » barack's nuts |
Log In to post a reply
|
|
|
|
| Topic View: Flat | Threaded | |
handofdave 3515 posts |
Jul 13, 2008, 17:22
|
||
|
I don't see how putting our fucked-up situation on a four-year holding pattern with McCain is preferable. America has survived 7 years of Bush, so I don't see how Obama draws so much alarmism from you. 'Off his nut'? That's all relative. Sticking with a republican white house that intends to drag out a failed war into an indeterminate future sound pretty 'off' to me. I do not think McCain is as bad as Bush, but that's not an endorsement. I don't think Obama is a savior figure or anything, but he's energized a lot of people who have been left out of the political process. McCain will only appeal to the same old demographics that have enjoyed power for the entirety of the history of the nation. Things have to CHANGE. You seem to feel comfortable with putting this change on a back burner out of fear that Obama will be another Carter. Personally, my opinion is that if the nation had followed Carter's lead on energy conservation, we wouldn't be so fucked as we are now. He was a flawed leader. They're ALL flawed. But some can be catalysts for change and some merely keep the status quo protected. I see McCain as the latter and Obama as the former. Would an Obama presidency run without any snags? No. Would McCain's? No. No matter who wins, there's a big fucking mess to clean up. Better to start now with some optimism than sit around for four years living the same old cynical game.
|
|||
tinky10675 209 posts |
Jul 13, 2008, 18:16
|
||
You know what...Im out of this discussion.Do you not remember waiting to buy gas on odd or even days depending on your license plate? Smog Alerts in California? Some of the most Naive global politics the world has ever seen? Allowing our people to be held hostage for 444 days? Yeah man I want a possibility of repeating that high point in Americas past.(not) Dave I don't know your age or where you are in America but seriously dude look at your facts. Im done with politics on here this is a music web site anyways....
|
|||
|
handofdave 3515 posts |
Jul 13, 2008, 19:04
|
||
|
tinky10675 wrote: You know what...Im out of this discussion.Do you not remember waiting to buy gas on odd or even days depending on your license plate? Smog Alerts in California? Some of the most Naive global politics the world has ever seen? Allowing our people to be held hostage for 444 days? Yeah man I want a possibility of repeating that high point in Americas past.(not) Dave I don't know your age or where you are in America but seriously dude look at your facts. Im done with politics on here this is a music web site anyways.... I'm in New England, I'm 46. I was living in W. Germany during the Carter years, so I don't remember gas rationing, no. So fucking what, tho? We are experiencing de facto gas rationing right now, based on the rising prices. Bush's policies have helped create a situation where the gas exporters are raking it in hand over fist, including Iran. Yep, our thirty year period of denial over the impending oil bust has strengthened the hand of terrorist supporting regimes and fundamentalism in the middle east. If anyone seriously thinks US national security has been improved under Bush's 'tough' leadership (which is what you seem to admire) they haven't been looking at the big picture. I do know that a lot of people think that those 444 days were the most humiliating in US history. Big fucking deal, compared to the shame we carry now for illegally invading Iraq and causing massive suffering so the oil companies can move in and take possession of their oil fields. Again, your precepts for good leadership are inordinately focused on being the biggest kid on the block, not the smartest. There's a lot of Americans who will sell out to protect their bloated comfort zone at any (and by that I mean someone else's) expense. I think you project that attitude when you propose voting in a guy who makes no secret of his sympathy for the use of force to keep America overindulged.
|
|||
|
tinky10675 209 posts |
Jul 13, 2008, 20:53
|
||
Wow dude seriously read what you just wrote.You're a real patriot man I wish you were running for office we could power ALL our stuff with your hot air.I guess you feel like your man Obama that we should realize that we don't deserve what we have and should be ashamed of our country and while we're at it lets all learn Spanish. Why do you live here?How do you live here hating it all so much from the comfort of your lazy boy recliner in front of your Big TV with your washer and dryer and all your creature comforts? How can you stand that you live in a place where you have all this? Oh the shame Dave oh the Shame.
|
|||
PMM 3155 posts |
Jul 13, 2008, 20:56
|
||
|
Well, Tinky, you don't do yourself many favours do you? Anyway, I'll ask again, since you failed to spot my question earlier. If you're vote is a protest, why aren't you voting for Ralph Nader?
|
|||
|
Lawrence 9547 posts |
Jul 13, 2008, 21:18
|
||
Sheesh! You're making Obama sound more and more appealing with your jingo-crap.
|
|||
|
tinky10675 209 posts |
Jul 13, 2008, 21:21
|
||
I've voted Green every Election I have had the opportunity to do so in .This one coming up however is very different in that I really believe that a victory for Obama will be a catastrophe for the U.S and it's Allies. Mc Cain can only mess things up for 4yrs Barrack could have 8yrs to do the same or worse therefore my decision to cross party lines for the 1st time.I want my vote to be more than symbolic this time. This is a matter of maintaining stability of Our cultures (in the U.S the U.K. and beyond) I really feel strongly that a win by Barrak Obama could turn the balance of power in a way unfavorable to all of our standards of living and thats not something im willing to risk.We have clawed and scratched our way to the top of the ladder do you want to wait in line for two hours for bread in England so that we can be nice and let other nations call the shots for us? I know it is an extreme scenario but you want to risk it? I know I dont. Im not about to hand over the Country I live in to some inexperienced politician because he's the cool hip flavor of the month getting everyones panties wet. The man stands for nothing he has no plan to speak of no experience no reason to be voted in that I can rationally see.Obama in my eyes means CHANGE alright but not the kind im willing to make for myself or my children.
|
|||
|
PMM 3155 posts |
Jul 13, 2008, 21:32
|
||
|
Better the devil you know? Bollocks. I did misread you. Given the antics of the Republicans for the last 8 years, wanting to keep them in power because the alternative might be worse (ie, the Democrats seem to be drifting towards a similar position on some issues) makes absolutely no sense. I'm not suggesting you're racist, but I think your logic is seriously flawed. I mean, really, utterly fucked up.
|
|||
Merrick 2148 posts |
Jul 13, 2008, 21:51
|
||
|
I'm unsure what you have against learning Spanish. Please could you explain. I don't see that your idea that McCain will be too old in four years cuts much ice. Firstly, he could well be healthy and ready to run again. But that's a side issue. The real point is that characterising it as just him (or just Obama) miscasts them as some kind of monarch. They are, at best, the head of a team. See how the Bush team have a lot of the same prominent figures as Bush senior, Reagan and further back (Rumsfeld and Kissinger were there with Nixon!). So even if it were four years of McCain then four years of another Republican, we'd be likely to see a similar administration for eight years. What really changed from Reagan to Bush Snr? You're not voting for McCain, you're voting for a Republican administration. To blame gas rationing on Carter alone is also disingenuous. There was a global oil crisis. There's likely to be another soon. Indeed, around the world people are protesting to their governments about the price of oil. It amazes me that people think that a finite resource dwindling as you use it is some kind of surprise, and/or that the governments can do anything about it. Which brings me on to your defence of the American overconsuming lifestyle. That great excess of comforts that you're defending is predicated on utterly unsustainable consumption. Worse, it's predicated on vast supplies of cheap oil, which is why US troops are in Iraq and why I don't think that the next president, whatever they might say before the election, is going to pull out of there any time soon. Worse than that, the oil and much of that other consumption is responsible for colossal emissions of greenhouse gases. As climate change is already killing people in their thousands every week and it is set to get far far worse, yes I think the age of cheap oil should end, yes many of the overconsuming luxuries should be reined in. Not to do so in the knowledge that it will lead to the suffering and deaths of others is unforgivable. Do you really think we should live in a way that gives more to the bloated minority at the expense of the majority? It's long past time to live a more fair life. Would Obama's administration do that? Bring in solutions that, say, cut carbon emissions by the amount that the science demands? As he's a man who talks of ethanol-powered cars and who says 'clean coal' without laughing, the answer is surely no. But giving your mandate to McCain, a man who thought the Surge wasn't big enough and wants a greater military commitment to Iraq, is surely even worse. You can euphemise it as maintaining your place 'at the top of the ladder', but what it actually means is killing people in vast numbers because they happen to live near resources that you don't need but would like. You shouldn't vote to kill people so you can have even more of what you don't need.
|
|||
|
handofdave 3515 posts |
Jul 13, 2008, 22:35
|
||
|
Wow, Tinky. You confirm every suspicion I've had of you. Xenophobic (fearing that other nations will punish us if we don't maintain dominance at all costs), and hypocritical (ready to keep killing abroad for cheap oil to maintain your overindulged standard of living, while sending me mocking assumptions about my 'lazy boy' lifestyle). How the hell can you call yourself a 'green'? You're ready to give a vote to a old white boy network motherfucker who'll be far more likely to keep us in an illegal war or even get us into another one than Obama. That's about as patently anti-green as it gets.
|
| Pages: 16 – [ Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 | Next ] | Add a reply to this topic |
|
|
|
| U-Know! Forum Index | |
