Anonymous
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Edited Apr 13, 2008, 11:36
Save Shoreditch and Brick Lane
Apr 13, 2008, 11:36
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http://www.saveshoreditch.com
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grufty jim
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Re: Save Shoreditch and Brick Lane
Apr 13, 2008, 14:20
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I don't know anything at all about this project, but here's my thing... if there's a demand for this extra floor-space in London (for offices or homes) then I'm afraid the choice between building "up" in a city centre versus building "out" and increasing urban sprawl is simply a no-brainer.
Cities need to go upwards and not outwards.
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Leonard
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Edited Apr 14, 2008, 14:16
Re: Save Shoreditch and Brick Lane
Apr 14, 2008, 14:12
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Nope, the office space is not required grufty, not there anyroad. Zoning is more important tbh, and culture/community even moreso.
Edit : As for housing, sure, right, they'll be 'affordable' won't they ? Just like the Hackney developments ;)
Anyway, does anon know if Redchurch Street is being eyed for redevelopment also (being nearby, and me not really understanding the current plans geography). I fucking love that road.
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grufty jim
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Edited Apr 14, 2008, 16:31
Re: Save Shoreditch and Brick Lane
Apr 14, 2008, 16:31
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As I say Leonard, I don't actually know the specifics of this project. My point was simply that, from an environmental point of view, in general urban development needs to go up and not out.
This is not to say that all high-rises are a good idea, merely that when it comes to urban floorspace, it usually comes down to a choice between erecting a skyscraper on a brownfield, inner city site or else building yet more mixed-function suburbs on greenfield sites.
And that's not just a theoretical observation... for the past 15 years the economic boom in Ireland has seen urban development progressing at a horrifying pace. However, the refusal of Dublin's local authorities to grant planning permission for high-rise buildings has resulted in -- my opinion -- an unmitigated disaster. Previously fallow land, as well as vast tracts of agricultural land, have been gobbled up by an ugly two-storey urban sprawl. And because people are so spread out, it means everyone has to use a car almost every day (lots of money has gone into road-building projects, almost none into public transport).
The whole thing is a complete disaster, and now with the economy about to enter freefall, it'll be an even worse nightmare.
Once again, let me stress, I'm not talking about the Shoreditch project which may very well be misjudged, but a lot of the time when people object to high-rises (or, indeed, wind-farms) they are placing their own immediate interests above the interests of society in general as well as the wider environment and the need for sustainability.
Which is a perfectly understandable human reaction. We live in a culture that strongly encourages us to place our own personal interests above all things. In the long term, that's not likely to work out very well, though.
===================
Why Socialism?
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Leonard
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Edited Apr 14, 2008, 18:52
Re: Save Shoreditch and Brick Lane
Apr 14, 2008, 18:50
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leonard = Stray.
Well aware of your points of view Grufty. We know how this development will play out, exactly like all the previous developments have played out in London for the last 20+ years.
In summary.
Local shop owners get moved out, then get offered to come back, albeit at stupidly inflated rents. Same happens to home owners. A few fuck off rich developers get a lot more fuck off rich. People get displaced, local community dies. Also, but of course, the city gets another fair few thousand feet of office spaces that will lie empty like the thousands of square feet empty in other parts of London. I mean, is Canary Wharf actually fully let yet even ?
This issue, like most urban regeneration plans has absolutely nothing to do with any enviromental issue, or common sense (short of the profit motive common sense). I agree wholeheartedly with your logic but it doesnt actualy apply to the real world of city planning short of lip service, or more accurately, as an excuse to rip the heart of an area to make some cash.
I, as you know don't really want to get into a debate about the green worth of such a project, (or the 'thats the way we have to do things for the good of the planet') because it is in fact not the issue here at all.
I'm all for us living sustainably, it's not going to happen until everything really goes tits up (which I think it will, am looking forward to it etc), and we have to. Until then, lets strive to keep a grip on some sense of community I say.
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laresident
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Re: Save Shoreditch and Brick Lane
Apr 15, 2008, 04:17
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Is Center Point let out yet or still empty after all these years? Mind you the history of the location was always pretty gristly.
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