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another american beheaded.
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Lawrence
9547 posts

Re: What the fuck?
Jun 29, 2004, 03:40
Isn't it great how Bush can unseat Saddam so that HE can torture Iraqis? That's really brilliant Quex!
Quexalcote
228 posts

Re: What the fuck?
Jun 29, 2004, 05:16
It's odd that your Hitler analogy goes with Bush rather than Hussein....

Your lack of logic is truly astounding, and I suppose it would be best to leave your to whatever world view you've got, but....

Maybe you could answer this question:

What do you think would have been an acceptable course of action to take with Saddam Hussein?

Or do you think things were fine with him in power?

Is there anything the US could possibly have done that would have been "correct" in your opinion?

From what I've heard, one of M. Moore's points in Farenheit 9/11 is that the US didn't do enough to get rid of the Taliban in Afghanistan, when at the time he was against doing anything at all. That kind of intellectual and moral cowardice seems to be going around a lot these days..........
Lawrence
9547 posts

Re: What the fuck?
Jun 29, 2004, 11:12
How about your lack of logic in just sitting there harping about how good that Bush toppled Saddam even though Bush is torturing Iraqis just like Saddam is! I really don't want to hear garbage like this!
duckbreath
254 posts

Re: another american beheaded.
Jun 29, 2004, 11:31
I know what you're saying and and hopefully the situation will eventaully be far better for the people of Iraq but I think some people rightly question the basis on which one country or group can impose their morality on another

ie *Even if* we can make life better for the oppressed citizens of a country - is it ok for a sovereign democracy to invade and remove the leaders of a sovereign tyranny (and risk harm/death of innocent people in the process)?

It's not a simple dilemma - should the US on the basis of its reasons for invading Iraq not fell an imperative for invading North Korea, China, Cuba, Zimbabwe? I'm not sure the US coalition can excuse their Iraq action on the basis of removing an evil dictator and anyway if there is a large amount of feeling against a particular country shouldn't any military action be done in accordance with an internationally agreed set of rules like the United Nations?

I think removal in the cases of Hitler and Milosovic were justifiable because of the international consensus and the immedicacy of their threat to other nations and ethnic groups - in the case of Iraq it looks much more like Bush had his eye on Saddam even before 9/11 and risked the stability of the world by railroading over international protocol. I think we are still to see the worst consequences of this.

In terms of profiteering from the Iraq war - profits are being made by administration-linked private companies like Brown & Root, Haliburton, who are being paid from public funds - for example if a power contract is awarded it might be given to a private US company and paid for by the US tax payers - it's a neat way for Cheney etc to exchange money into their own companies from the public purse and better still - it's all legal.
Lawrence
9547 posts

Re: another american beheaded.
Jun 29, 2004, 11:37
There Quex! Again I think you are sick if you think tortuing Iraqis to stop fascism is a great idea. Don't give me yr 'morality' crap either. Bush=Saddam and you cannot convince me otherwise!
gorseddphungus
185 posts

double standards
Jun 29, 2004, 11:37
"with this aside, i still find EVERYTHING that led to the u.s. invasion into iraq totally preposterous. the u.s.a didn't just go in there to free to good folks of iraq from saddam hussein. trust me. there's other motives and they are hidden behind the huge flag being waved in the name of "democracy."

this is precisely what makes most of the human race (apart from those americans who live unaware of the rest of the world) feel disgusted by america and its cynical double standards. then americans wonder 'why? isnt it a good thing that saddam is gone?' without bothering to dig a little bit deeper. the rest of the arabs are pissed off, terrorism is worse than ever before and what is MUCH worse, american image abroad is the worst its ever been, and not only in arab countries, also in any other democratic countries. Blair and Berlusconi are not representing public opinion in their countries. Isn't THIS a good reason to be against the war now that it is well known around the world that American torture chambers are exactly the same as Saddam's torture chambers?
Lawrence
9547 posts

Re: another american beheaded.
Jun 29, 2004, 11:39
I'll bet you take the line of "America isn't perfect but it's all we got" line just like the other pathetic reactionaries, huh Quex?
Lawrence
9547 posts

Re: double standards
Jun 29, 2004, 11:43
Besides Berlusconi is more of a fascist than I am!
gorseddphungus
185 posts

Re: another american beheaded.
Jun 29, 2004, 11:46
the thing that is not right is acting against the UN (which only needed a little more time) in a unilateral way just because it was in the US agenda prior to 9.11. The Bush admin had it all cooked up way before they ever heard of Bin Laden. It only takes a few words on american tv to make it all sound interrelated. It is well known Bin Laden had no connections with Irak. Now he bloody well does. Everybody knows that. If the US (under Clinton perhaps) had waited a little bit longer for the UN to approve of war then you wouldn't have so many people bluntly hating the US now. Then people might have been willing to debate the reasons for war or even listen to the americans. Remember it was not to topple Saddam Hussein that the war was fought even though they have been fighting to make us believe that scandal after scandal after scandal, so it is right to oppose the war. Lies. That is what makes people angry. Other politicians have had to resign for less.
gorseddphungus
185 posts

Re: double standards
Jun 29, 2004, 11:52
just because hussein is from a third world country doesn't make him more of a fascist than a pervert in a suit with utter control of the media.
it is just easier to count the corpses when they happen so evidently and so directly (hussein), but when the dead pile up in a foreign country and no-one bothers to count them then it is hard to blame the person pushing the buttons from an air conditioned office
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