broen
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Re: fourwinds - photo
Jun 13, 2003, 14:25
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ok fourwinds - eventually I have scanned that photo we were on about a couple of months ago.
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FourWinds
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Re: fourwinds - photo
Jun 13, 2003, 19:13
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Superb! Great angle. Much more useful than the other picture. Definitely the same place for one thing.
Almost definitely a court tomb too and not a stone circle! I shall definitely have to get over there.
Signposting some court tombs as 'stone circles' is still quite common even this beastie is sign posted as such on at least one sign:
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/browse.php?site_id=1044
You can see why it may have been done, but there's no excuse for it these days ;-)
Thanks for posting the image.
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broen
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Re: fourwinds - photo
Jun 14, 2003, 10:26
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Hi, yeah sorry about the delay, I had to buy a scanner in the end - its easier than leaving the house. btw In Carnac there is a similar place - a long rectangle of stones about 50 metres away from a giant menhir - cant remember then name for the life of me - must go back to take some proper photos.
you might be able to help me actually, What is the history of theses Irish Court Tombs? and have any been excavated and where can I find info on dates and peoples who used them?
The guy that took the photo asks me regularly if I know of anymore info on this particular site, which is well.. a bit hard to come byso any info in general would be appreciated.
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FourWinds
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Re: fourwinds - photo
Jun 14, 2003, 13:34
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Court tombs are considered the oldest of the Irish tombs. They date back to about 3500-4000bce (and perhaps earlier). However, the diminutive passage tombs of Carrowmore are throwing up C14 dates around 7000bce at the moment!!!
If you imagine a low West Kennett, but with a half circle or even a full circle in front of the tomb, then you have a court tomb. Burial right was cremation,with very little grave goods. I believe them to be more akin to a church than a burial chamber.
Their main concentration is in the north Sligo, Mayo, Donegal and right across NI. There are a few in the south, but they are more hybrids.
The portal tombs are said to be an offshoot of them.
They were set at one end of a trapezoidal cairn, similar to Wayland's & WK.
The builders could have been the first farmers as there is a concentration around north Mayo near to the Ceide Fields (a field system dated to 3500bce).
Court tombs are an insular Irish development that spread slightly into Scotland and Man - Cairn Holy and King Orry's Grave for example.
Later on I'll try to list a good bibliography on the Irish tombs.
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broen
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Re: fourwinds - photo
Jun 14, 2003, 20:32
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excellent - I knew I was chatting to the right person ;-}
always nice to see a farming link.
Curious thing the half circles, whats your thoughts on them, do you think there's a sun and moon thing going on? Or do you have a different angle your toying with?
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FourWinds
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Re: fourwinds - photo
Jun 14, 2003, 22:45
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A large percentage face north so there's no sun/moon link.
I just think they're a ceremonial court yard. The arcs of stones had dry stone walling between the orthostats (at least one - Behy in Mayo at The Ceide Fields - has a completely drystone court). This would have made a superb sounding board for a-chanting and a-preaching. See:
http://www.megalithomania.com/show_site.php?site_id=530
Along with the Carrowmore tombs they could be the roots of stone circles. They could also be related to the Breton half circles and even the half circle at Avebury (but no one's ever considerd that link - the tomb that used to be by the road in the centre of Avebury is very like an Irish wedge tomb too), but people seem to get upset when I propose a theory that goes against Burl's 'Origin of Bits of Avebury is Breton' theory :-)
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FourWinds
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Re: any info?
Jul 07, 2003, 07:16
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It's NOT Rosdoagh! I was there yesterday and it looks nothing like the pictures.
Can you get any clues off your friend as to were abouts he/she was? nearest town etc?
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broen
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Fourwinds - Not Rosdoagh more like Fallmore
Jan 11, 2004, 14:33
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hi fourwinds
With regard to the Not Rosdoagh site.
I have received some more info in it ... eventually ;-)
My mate brought a road map in to work and marked with a pen the position of this other circle. I have crossed referenced it on the TMA Map Browser and it doesnt seem to be on here.
This site lies the same distance as Rosdoagh from Bellmullet but in the opposite direction and is situated on the southern tip of the peninsular facing westward towards Inishkea and Blacksod Bay with easy access from a minor coastal road between Aghleam and Fallmore.
I think that a new site is to be added but with no name?? and a near but approximate grid reference. What you reckon?
I have got an approximate grid reference of F 606 194 Irish Grid which I bodged through multimap and ordnancesurvey.com - use multimap link below.
http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?X=-1125000&Y=7150000&width=500&height=300&client=public&gride=&gridn=&srec=0&coordsys=mercator&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&scale=100000&advanced=&lang=&multimap.x=191&multimap.y=30
Hope this is of some use
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Moth
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Carnac
Jan 12, 2004, 13:15
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The Mario Quadrilateral? At least at face value I'd not have thought of that. Is that the one you mean?
This page has the best pics I could quickly find on t'web, but (uncharacteristically for Megalithic Walks) they seem to have spelt the name wrong...seems to be MaRio rather than MaNio everywhere else (including my memory!)
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/celynog/Brittany/manio_quadrilateral.htm
The nearby menhir is known as the Giant of (or 'in') the Woods usually I think. Megalithic Walks calls it the Manio (sic) Giant. (Again I assume they mean Mario) http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/celynog/Brittany/geant_de_manio.htm
love
Moth
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Spaceship mark
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Re: Carnac
Jan 12, 2004, 13:28
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It's definitely Manio. The setting is called the Quadrilataire de Manio and the menhir is the Geant de Manio.
The Quadrilataire is unusual as it is looking less lekely that it ever contained a mound or burials. It could be a unique transistionary monument between the passage 'graves' and cromlechs.
Nearby is the Tetre Tumulaire de Manio. A low mound within which were discovered a number of small kists.
An earlier menhir pokes therough the mound and the whole lot is stradled by the later Kermario Alignements.
Don't know if that's any use...
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