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nigelswift
8112 posts

Edited Feb 20, 2012, 12:33
Re: Mixed messages or a fundamental respect?
Feb 20, 2012, 13:32
VBB wrote:
Similarly any monument code should be sent to the BBC and other TV companies as well as EH and NT and they should be put in a position where they want to sign up adopt and implement it.



Great idea sending it to both the guardians and the broadcasters. It's the mixed messages of the former that have facilitated the acts of disrespect by the latter. The former ought to have publicised a simple No Disrespect message about monuments many years ago. The Beeb and Channel 4 would never have dared flout it if they had.
Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4670 posts

Re: Mixed messages or a fundamental respect?
Feb 20, 2012, 14:38
VBB wrote:
Mixed messages or a fundamental respect for monuments?

The modern world doesn’t want war monuments disrespected by the theft of metal plaques or urinating by drunks or being swung from by protesters, yet doesn’t object to a BBC Countryfile stunt that foists a hardboard poppy on the Fovant Badges for a day’s filming?

Painting a green Mohican on a modern metal statue of Churchill is not acceptable, and yet making over a centuries old chalk monument is when it is for Red Nose Day, or a TV fashion stunt by Trinny and sidekick, or a car advertisement?

Utilising the Westbury White Horse for Peter Cook’s and Dudley Moore’s Not Only But Also is acceptable but not the Uffington White Horse for TV’s Big Brother?

The modern world doesn’t want the lichens on Avebury stones destroyed by paint again, yet destruction by climbing is okay?

The modern world would allow new traditions to develop such as solstice gatherers clambering on Stonehenge lintels, but not contemporary protesters such as F4J?

The modern world doesn’t want foreign materials or seeds imported to Silbury Hill by officialdom, but doesn’t do anything about educating re the importation by lay climbers that are destroying vulnerable archaeology just below the surface?

The authorities can dig up Avebury to put in facilities for tourist information, and we expect contractors to know they mustn’t just dig up the same street to fix an electric cable fault?

From imported wooden staircases at Avebury henge to the sale of sarsen on e-bay, the modern world is awash with mixed messages about monuments. Either we come up with and adopt a voluntary code in relation to ancient monuments and encourage everyone to universally adopt it and kids to grow up with it for the sake of respect and understanding, or we will simply have to face up to the regular disasters and vandalism that plagues our heritage.


Excellent post VBB but I fear the same will be said in 100 years time as nothing much changes, even when the law insists it should sadly!
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Mixed messages or a fundamental respect?
Feb 20, 2012, 16:01
Sanctuary wrote:
Excellent post VBB but I fear the same will be said in 100 years time as nothing much changes, even when the law insists it should sadly!



I disagree. If there's a Charter that says something like

"The guardian signatories to this document undertake not to sanction and the broadcaster signatories undertake not to implement actions that involve obvious disrespect to ancient monuments..."

.... that'll be the end of the crassest manifestations of brandalism won't it?
drewbhoy
drewbhoy
2550 posts

Re: Climbing on Standing Stones
Feb 21, 2012, 03:39
Why send them up to us, what did we do! As for the Cuillins, slightly difficult would be more accurate, nothing more.
Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4670 posts

Re: Climbing on Standing Stones
Feb 21, 2012, 17:14
hedgedruid wrote:
Recent topic on sites at risk in N Yorks brought to mind that on several occassions this year i have had to ask people to stop climbing on sacred sites . At Pentre Ifan had to have words with french family whose children were climbing all over the monument - didn't know they were french ! loony in a kilt gesticulating seemed to do the trick . Recently at castleriggg had to ask japanese tourists to desist .
At alot of sites a polite notice "not to climb" on stones might help .
Folk afterwards have come over to agree with me but not been prepared to tackle the ignorant .

Bright Blessings


We climb over sarsens and other stones lying around in outcrops to get from A to B and never give it a thought, yet the moment they are erected and become part of a circle or tomb they become 'sacred' and we rightfully keep off them...well some of us do anyway!! There's nowt as queer as folk is there TIC :-)
nigelswift
8112 posts

Edited Feb 23, 2012, 13:17
Re: Climbing on Standing Stones
Feb 23, 2012, 14:11
tjj wrote:
My stance on these latest posts is to let sleeping dogs lie. All other issues aside I recall it was a memorable day. I had no intention of pin pointing any particular group of people or individuals. Jonnyj (whoever she/he is) has already said 'why' they examined the cap stone and absolutely no damage was done - we are talking about massive sarsen stones after all.


Yet again you've posted a nasty sideswipe at me, yet again I've dutifully not risen to the bait in accordance with the Eds requirements above and yet again (the Nth time) you've subsequently quietly removed the offensive part, leaving no visible evidence, thereby showing you knew it was unacceptable. I refer you to the top of the forum, about posting things to deliberately cause problems. I suggest you ignore me in future as I do you. It's not rocket science.
tjj
tjj
3606 posts

Re: Climbing on Standing Stones
Feb 23, 2012, 18:08
Tetchy!! I reserve the right to edit my posts if I judge it prudent to do so. Please don't tell me what to do and how to behave on forum Nigel as I always try not to give offence.
jonnyj
28 posts

Re: Climbing on Standing Stones
Feb 24, 2012, 04:42
nigelswift wrote:
tjj wrote:
My stance on these latest posts is to let sleeping dogs lie. All other issues aside I recall it was a memorable day. I had no intention of pin pointing any particular group of people or individuals. Jonnyj (whoever she/he is) has already said 'why' they examined the cap stone and absolutely no damage was done - we are talking about massive sarsen stones after all.


Yet again you've posted a nasty sideswipe at me, yet again I've dutifully not risen to the bait in accordance with the Eds requirements above and yet again (the Nth time) you've subsequently quietly removed the offensive part, leaving no visible evidence, thereby showing you knew it was unacceptable. I refer you to the top of the forum, about posting things to deliberately cause problems. I suggest you ignore me in future as I do you. It's not rocket science.




Chill Nigel, isn't that what the edit button is for. ?

You say "you've not risen to the bait" but here you are, and only you, highlighting it. !?!

I'm sure in the heat of the moment we've all typed *"nasty swipes" and even posted them, then thought better a few minutes later. ?

It's human/forum nature, and a symptom of tiny communities, and dare i say an almost incestuous mentality. :)

*I didn't see the original post so i'm using Nigels interpretation.
jonnyj
28 posts

Re: Climbing on Standing Stones
Feb 24, 2012, 05:00
nigelswift wrote:
jonnyj wrote:
I'd certainly hope they don't care what others think


Sure, if that refers to not caring what others think about archaeological theories. But not caring what others think about climbing stones is another thing altogether.

Incidentally, you mentioned "none of said above people show anything but complete respect for the Avebury area stones on any other occasion" (which I assume means they don't normally advocate anyone climbing on the Avebury area monuments) so I'm curious why they felt it was justified in their case on this one occasion?


You develop a nose Nigel, like a fine wine connoisseur, and act on it. ;)

It's also about association, in this area it's one of the less visited sites, unlike Avebury itself, Silbury, WKLB, WKA etc etc which have been scrutinised inch by inch, and as already said, 700 metres distant you have the only other of possible rock art in the area.

Personally, before reading an online article a month or so ago, i'd never seen those markings so it was of interest to me, i've since climbed the monument myself and taken further photographs as i strongly believe any markings no matter how debatable should be recorded for posterity and further scrutiny, if that means a few well informed people climbing a monument for all the right reasons i fully support them, they've come up with the goods in the past.
Resonox
604 posts

Re: Climbing on Standing Stones
Feb 24, 2012, 08:09
Its all very confusing...it seems it is OK to complain about people climbing on stones if they are carrying beer cans but not if they are carrying a camera....It is OK to pee on stones if you are highlighting rock art but not if you are just peeing...it is OK to climb on stones to discover/verify markings but not to climb on them for climbing's sake...I't is OK to climb on stones if you respect them but disrespect other people's feelings because you are "unconventrional" but not vice versa....etc etc...I'll stick with my own non-climbing stance. which should offend no-one...and still I'll berate anyone I see climbing on them....to paraphrase a well known saying...For this practice to thrive it only takes one good person to say nothing. So come on...be good people stand up for your heart's feelings.
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