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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Climbing on Standing Stones |
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thesweetcheat 6210 posts |
Mar 02, 2012, 23:11
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juamei wrote: GLADMAN wrote: So, by all means, climbing Silbury, sitting upon a crumbling capstone... granted.. out of order. But applying blanket moral condemnation of those who venture far and wide to put obscure sites - many at risk - betrays a lack of understanding of the true scale of what is going on out there. I couldn't agree more... If you perceived that from my post rather than answering other peoples issues, then I clearly didn't speak clearly! Well, to be fair, what you said was "ITS WRONG. Don't tell me it causes no damage, I don't give a fuck if its minor I really don't, its wrong. Simple as. " That sounds like blanket moral condemnation to me. As I said yesterday, we will have to disagree. I shall be out in the hills tomorrow, doing what I think is right.
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The Eternal 924 posts |
Mar 02, 2012, 23:14
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Sanctuary wrote: thesweetcheat wrote: tomwatts wrote: "Judge Carroll Moran said ownership of property is a right, but this right was not "unfettered" and was qualified by the fact that property was held in trust for the culture of the country." Right on. I think this really sums up what this wonderful thread was really all about. The people who go about purposely causing damage to our heritage by simply not caring a fuck versus the person who just jumps on a stone or mound to take a photograph or be king of the castle in front of his mates for a moment or two. The former is the REAL problem and the latter I feel on reflection I can live with. We've had some terrific responses to it and have all remained civil and sensible as like minded folk should be. I say well done all of us for making a thread so enjoyable. I think that sums it up. People who knowingly climb on sites of historical interest have no defence for their actions. Ignorance, on the other hand, whilst not exactly the best excuse, is at least forgiveable. Whilst I haven't read most of the posts, those I have read have confirmed one thing: TMA members seem to be in agreement for once, which has to be good. Regards, TE.
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thesweetcheat 6210 posts |
Mar 02, 2012, 23:14
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Another beautifully balanced and considered post Robert. This thread has saddened me so much, I shall be glad to get outside somewhere, where the morally superior will never (bother to) go.
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thesweetcheat 6210 posts |
Mar 02, 2012, 23:18
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The Eternal wrote: Whilst I haven't read most of the posts, those I have read have confirmed one thing: TMA members seem to be in agreement for once, which has to be good. Hello TE, I think perhaps you need to read more of the posts. :-)
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juamei 2013 posts |
Mar 02, 2012, 23:21
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thesweetcheat wrote: juamei wrote: GLADMAN wrote: So, by all means, climbing Silbury, sitting upon a crumbling capstone... granted.. out of order. But applying blanket moral condemnation of those who venture far and wide to put obscure sites - many at risk - betrays a lack of understanding of the true scale of what is going on out there. I couldn't agree more... If you perceived that from my post rather than answering other peoples issues, then I clearly didn't speak clearly! Well, to be fair, what you said was "ITS WRONG. Don't tell me it causes no damage, I don't give a fuck if its minor I really don't, its wrong. Simple as. " That sounds like blanket moral condemnation to me. As I said yesterday, we will have to disagree. I shall be out in the hills tomorrow, doing what I think is right. Meh. Moral condemnation of climbing stones sure. Moral condemnation of those who venture far and wide to obscure sites? I think I am being tarred and feathered for something no-one said. Like you this thread saddens me... How so many people who love monuments cannot see the obvious in front of their eyes... I am a moral absolutist, we all are ultimately, perhaps my ideals are just that much more, well ideal.
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thesweetcheat 6210 posts |
Mar 02, 2012, 23:38
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juamei wrote: Meh. Moral condemnation of climbing stones sure. Moral condemnation of those who venture far and wide to obscure sites? I think I am being tarred and feathered for something no-one said. Like you this thread saddens me... How so many people who love monuments cannot see the obvious in front of their eyes... I am a moral absolutist, we all are ultimately, perhaps my ideals are just that much more, well ideal. You condemned the erosion of banks (i.e. by anyone who walks on them) and you appear to me to be condemning anyone who ventures onto the mound of an upland cairn or a barrow, or are you not? You also stated that you don't care whether it causes damage or not, as in your eyes it's still wrong. That sounds like "look but don't touch" to me. If you did not mean this, Resonox most absolutely did. I'm not sure what "the obvious" is that I'm missing (otherwise I wouldn't be missing it). I read Gladman's eloquent posts in this thread and they raise my spirits, and for a minute I think that the point must surely have been put across. But not so. Personally, I'm rather sick and tired of being judged and condemned. I have never been so depressed by a TMA thread (and there have been some pretty iffy ones in the past). I'm at a loss to understand how JC's own website has attracted people who must actively disapprove of so much of the sentiment that inspired the paper TMA.
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juamei 2013 posts |
Mar 02, 2012, 23:50
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thesweetcheat wrote: Another beautifully balanced and considered post Robert. This thread has saddened me so much, I shall be glad to get outside somewhere, where the morally superior will never (bother to) go. Don't be sad. In the wide spectrum of respect for prehistoric sites, both sides are so close as to be indistinguishable from an outsider. I draw the line in a slightly different place is all. Don't forget, morals are very subjective, from my view point your post is fairly high and mighty in itself. Also, have a nice day out! I'm moving house but console myself that from my bedroom window I'll be able to see at least 5 cairns and possible 2 long barrows. x
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tjj 3606 posts |
Edited Mar 02, 2012, 23:50
Mar 02, 2012, 23:52
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thesweetcheat wrote: The Eternal wrote: Whilst I haven't read most of the posts, those I have read have confirmed one thing: TMA members seem to be in agreement for once, which has to be good. Hello TE, I think perhaps you need to read more of the posts. :-) I was thinking this too tsc and dropped out of the discussion after the remark about 'old biddies taking photographs being just as much desecrators as louts ...'. Speaking as a mature female person this stung momentarily but it certainly won't stop me pursuing an activity which gives me a great deal of stimulation and enjoyment; and of course, out of respect, I won't be climbing/sitting on any ancient stones. Here's to fresh air, the walk, the buzzard overhead and the occasional sighting of deer or a fox - as we make our way to some of the more out of the way ancient sites. Keep on keeping on!! Edit: Just in case someone says I've misquoted - this is a copy and paste of what was written ... Not much of a rumble if everyone wants to get on to old biddies taking pictures but not the louts taking a piss.....treat 'em all as the desecrators they are!
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thesweetcheat 6210 posts |
Mar 03, 2012, 00:05
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Fair enough, that's your opinion. You're not the one who's spent the last however many pointless days of this thread defending himself though are you? I'd love to agree that the viewpoints here are virtually indistinguishable, but to be honest I don't think they are. I think we have a shared interest, and that we both want to do (what we perceive to be) the right thing. But our view of what that is, is not the same.
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juamei 2013 posts |
Mar 03, 2012, 00:06
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The obvious is I simply cannot understand how people think climbing on the stones can be right. Nothing more nothing less. I can't be bothered with a point by point reply, and tbh really should have stuck by my promise to myself to just keep out of these pointless discussions. Especially ones with descend into the same old tired battle lines. I am also sick and tired of being condemned. The lies and mistruths spoken about some on "my side" of this argument have become gospel to some on this forum. Its all a bunch of complete and utter bollocks and poisons the very waters from which we drink.
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