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The Sea Cat
The Sea Cat
3608 posts

Edited Sep 08, 2011, 18:08
Re: Our Sacred Land
Sep 08, 2011, 18:05
This thread is starting to piss me off a tad, unfortunately. I'm all for interesting tangents and related discussions, but, if anyone wants me to close it, just say it, please.

Namaste

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Aq5-WSFuo8

:-)
StoneGloves
StoneGloves
1149 posts

Sacre Bleu!
Sep 08, 2011, 18:11
( http://youtu.be/cHTDkJ-bQqM )
tjj
tjj
3613 posts

Re: Sacre Bleu!
Sep 08, 2011, 18:38
Here's my offering ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl3i1GMuyeU

Peace to all ... and it isn't even autumn equinox yet.
Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4676 posts

Re: Sacre Bleu!
Sep 08, 2011, 19:01
tjj wrote:
Here's my offering ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl3i1GMuyeU

Peace to all ... and it isn't even autumn equinox yet.


Okay June if you want Willow let's spice it up a bit with an earful of Maddie
http://youtu.be/3zzwbYyvWiU
Altogether now ...'All around my hat....'
Squid Tempest
Squid Tempest
8787 posts

Re: Our Sacred Land
Sep 08, 2011, 20:41
The Sea Cat wrote:
This thread is starting to piss me off a tad, unfortunately. I'm all for interesting tangents and related discussions, but, if anyone wants me to close it, just say it, please.

Namaste

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Aq5-WSFuo8

:-)


Don't let the thread piss you off, it can't help it! I think despite some tangents (and let's face it, no decent thread would be without the odd digression) it has been a healthy discussion. OK so we don't all agree, but it wouldn't be much of a discussion if we all just went "yep" everytime anyone asked a question! At least this time things have stayed pretty civilized. Apart from me of course ;-)And who knows, maybe some of us might learn something by discussing it with "the other side" as it were.
The Sea Cat
The Sea Cat
3608 posts

Edited Sep 09, 2011, 07:34
Re: Our Sacred Land
Sep 09, 2011, 07:33
Gwass wrote:
Squid Tempest wrote:
Gwass wrote:
nigelswift wrote:
Sanctuary wrote:
Rhiannon. Any form of fighting in public by gangs of youths impinges on the public to a degree, but the public were not the target in those days like they are now. It is obvious and should not be used to try and prove your point which is not valid.



PS I've been in a few staff rooms in my time. You should reserve your dismissive "not valid" stamp of disapproval for the claim that the majority of the occupants are almost communists.


That was me and I disagree that it's not a valid point. Also I didn't say that the majority of occupants were almost communist, I said a large number are which is fair comment and I don't feel I need to "reserve" it at all on an open free speech forum.

A large number are extremely unionized, the unions links to communism are well know so to say that a large number are verging on communism isn't a false statement at all.

Also I feel the 'taking a valid thread off on tangents' may have been aimed at me, if it wasn't then I genuinely apologise but my 1st comment was a perfectly valid and on topic one about the (obvios IMO) link between the extra numbers of people coming here and the need for more houses & threat to our 'sacred land'. It was the reactions to that reasonable point which took us off on tangents.

Finally, I feel in the main it's been a polite 50/50 debate with everyone holding their own so there's no need to rush to the defence of anyone as they've been giving as good as they get in a sensible grown up debate. There's been no victimization of anyone so it's not necessary.

All the best

Gwass


Hi Gwass. I must say I think you are way off the mark thinking that a large proportion of teachers are communist. In my opinion it might be better if they were, as Rhiannon sort of said.

I feel that the recent violence can be squarely blamed on the Thatcherite ethics of recent decades. Young people are indoctrinated to think only of themselves, and greed and aquistitive consumerism are a direct result of this. And a direct result of greed and aquisitive consumerism was seen in the recent riots, with kids taking what they wanted with no regard for others. If they were bought up to have a more caring sharing world view perhaps things would be different.

I do, however, agree that for the most part this debate has been quite reasoned and level headed. It's good to discuss these things in an adult fashion Who knows, maybe we'll all learn something.


Hi ST

I agree.... about the reasoned debate :-)

Isn't blaming Thatcherism missing the point a bit? I think it's more to do with discipline & decency or lack of it.

Yes we unfortunately have a materialistic society but that's been the case for a while now, the cause of that morphing into people just taking what they want can be blamed on the removal of responsibility, and discipline.

Before if people wanted something they knew they'd have to work for it not go out and smash a window and just take it.

Using the Thatcherite argument suggests that everyone brought up since then would steal to get something which isn't the case.

It's beacuse responsibility has been subjigated & we have a society where anything goes.

I whole heartedly agree with the dangers of our vacuos consumerist society though and feel really strongly against that, and don't think the left has a monopoly on that or being 'nice'.

Not sure about being better off if more teachers were communist though, but that's where we differ.

I see that as the problem rather than the solution. I think your views while admirable are misguided, looking at the bigger picture this left wing approach is (I feel) damaging becasue it ignores the reality of human nature. Quite nasty, aggressive people are molly coddled and treated with kid gloves when what they need are boundaries and consequences.

Like what Cameron said, for too long we've taught reward without effort, actions without consequences and that there are no wrong choices, just different ones with equal value so we don't offend anyone. Prizes for everyone removes the concept of competition and striving to be the best you can. These approaches remove one crucial element from the class room - real life!

How can a school be considered to be preparing youngsters for the real world when they remove the elements & forces of the real world?!

That's why we've got kids who've never had to work for anything and expect it to be handed to them on a plate! Combine that with an almost contempt for our culture & history where all others are to be celebrated and you have kids not knowing who they are, where they come from & where they fit into the world, let alone having any pride in themselves.

I think Thatcherism is part of it, but a small part. We've been a comsumerist society for decades and you didn't get the kind of violent disregard for others, (including those in authority & teachers themselves), and willingness to just take things rather than earn them that we see now.

I think that gangster culture; the idolising of material goods, voilence; and subjigation of women and the weak are more to balme for that than thatcherism could ever be.

And the fact that there is no right or wrong in the class room or discipline; kids are in control as they know they can't be touched so run riot; creates the vacum which is filled by gangster culture.


Well, for what it's worth, my private school had excellent disciplinary standards, due to its policy of Capital Punishment. It was very traditional. Regular keelhaulings in the swimming pool before prep were the norm. However, it did leave one with a rather irrational fear of pedlos and a strange attraction to starch and thermometers.
Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4676 posts

Re: Our Sacred Land
Sep 09, 2011, 14:58
The Sea Cat wrote:
Gwass wrote:
Squid Tempest wrote:
Gwass wrote:
nigelswift wrote:
Sanctuary wrote:
Rhiannon. Any form of fighting in public by gangs of youths impinges on the public to a degree, but the public were not the target in those days like they are now. It is obvious and should not be used to try and prove your point which is not valid.



PS I've been in a few staff rooms in my time. You should reserve your dismissive "not valid" stamp of disapproval for the claim that the majority of the occupants are almost communists.


That was me and I disagree that it's not a valid point. Also I didn't say that the majority of occupants were almost communist, I said a large number are which is fair comment and I don't feel I need to "reserve" it at all on an open free speech forum.

A large number are extremely unionized, the unions links to communism are well know so to say that a large number are verging on communism isn't a false statement at all.

Also I feel the 'taking a valid thread off on tangents' may have been aimed at me, if it wasn't then I genuinely apologise but my 1st comment was a perfectly valid and on topic one about the (obvios IMO) link between the extra numbers of people coming here and the need for more houses & threat to our 'sacred land'. It was the reactions to that reasonable point which took us off on tangents.

Finally, I feel in the main it's been a polite 50/50 debate with everyone holding their own so there's no need to rush to the defence of anyone as they've been giving as good as they get in a sensible grown up debate. There's been no victimization of anyone so it's not necessary.

All the best

Gwass


Hi Gwass. I must say I think you are way off the mark thinking that a large proportion of teachers are communist. In my opinion it might be better if they were, as Rhiannon sort of said.

I feel that the recent violence can be squarely blamed on the Thatcherite ethics of recent decades. Young people are indoctrinated to think only of themselves, and greed and aquistitive consumerism are a direct result of this. And a direct result of greed and aquisitive consumerism was seen in the recent riots, with kids taking what they wanted with no regard for others. If they were bought up to have a more caring sharing world view perhaps things would be different.

I do, however, agree that for the most part this debate has been quite reasoned and level headed. It's good to discuss these things in an adult fashion Who knows, maybe we'll all learn something.


Hi ST

I agree.... about the reasoned debate :-)

Isn't blaming Thatcherism missing the point a bit? I think it's more to do with discipline & decency or lack of it.

Yes we unfortunately have a materialistic society but that's been the case for a while now, the cause of that morphing into people just taking what they want can be blamed on the removal of responsibility, and discipline.

Before if people wanted something they knew they'd have to work for it not go out and smash a window and just take it.

Using the Thatcherite argument suggests that everyone brought up since then would steal to get something which isn't the case.

It's beacuse responsibility has been subjigated & we have a society where anything goes.

I whole heartedly agree with the dangers of our vacuos consumerist society though and feel really strongly against that, and don't think the left has a monopoly on that or being 'nice'.

Not sure about being better off if more teachers were communist though, but that's where we differ.

I see that as the problem rather than the solution. I think your views while admirable are misguided, looking at the bigger picture this left wing approach is (I feel) damaging becasue it ignores the reality of human nature. Quite nasty, aggressive people are molly coddled and treated with kid gloves when what they need are boundaries and consequences.

Like what Cameron said, for too long we've taught reward without effort, actions without consequences and that there are no wrong choices, just different ones with equal value so we don't offend anyone. Prizes for everyone removes the concept of competition and striving to be the best you can. These approaches remove one crucial element from the class room - real life!

How can a school be considered to be preparing youngsters for the real world when they remove the elements & forces of the real world?!

That's why we've got kids who've never had to work for anything and expect it to be handed to them on a plate! Combine that with an almost contempt for our culture & history where all others are to be celebrated and you have kids not knowing who they are, where they come from & where they fit into the world, let alone having any pride in themselves.

I think Thatcherism is part of it, but a small part. We've been a comsumerist society for decades and you didn't get the kind of violent disregard for others, (including those in authority & teachers themselves), and willingness to just take things rather than earn them that we see now.

I think that gangster culture; the idolising of material goods, voilence; and subjigation of women and the weak are more to balme for that than thatcherism could ever be.

And the fact that there is no right or wrong in the class room or discipline; kids are in control as they know they can't be touched so run riot; creates the vacum which is filled by gangster culture.


'Well, for what it's worth, my private school had excellent disciplinary standards, due to its policy of Capital Punishment. It was very traditional. Regular keelhaulings in the swimming pool before prep were the norm. However, it did leave one with a rather irrational fear of pedlos and a strange attraction to starch and thermometers.


Talking of schools but going out on a tangent again, I just received this from an English Prof. in Michigan, USA. Believe it or not were were actually discussing dogs but she tossed this in.

'My personal experience on campus is that the administration can't wait for the experienced instructors/profs. to retire so they can hire the cheaper, inexperienced, part time instructor. One of our union reps. said it so clearly, "they are out sourcing education." I'm glad I'm almost ready to leave a job that at one point in my life I loved'.
The Eternal
926 posts

Re: Our Sacred Land
Sep 09, 2011, 21:26
The Sea Cat wrote:
The battle to save our forests never went away as we know, and now the gauntlet is really down. Our Sacred inheritance. Our land. Our Right.

Let's all get out their as much as we can, individually and on mass.
Even when they force this through, let us all keep laying claim to our ancient living Cultural heritage.

New Houses and Communities for the relentless and recklessly out of control expanding and endlessly consuming population. Yippee. Well fuck 'em. They can build over my bones, and I'll have a middle finger one thrust defiantly aloft up through the Tarmac in the Supermarket Car Park. A place of brief respite for a passing Sparrow, at least.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/government-to-press-ahead-with-planning-reforms-2349548.html


Sea Cat,
I'm with you on that.
Cheers,
TE.
Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4676 posts

Re: Our Sacred Land
Sep 10, 2011, 06:31
The Sea Cat wrote:
The battle to save our forests never went away as we know, and now the gauntlet is really down. Our Sacred inheritance. Our land. Our Right.

Let's all get out their as much as we can, individually and on mass.
Even when they force this through, let us all keep laying claim to our ancient living Cultural heritage.

New Houses and Communities for the relentless and recklessly out of control expanding and endlessly consuming population. Yippee. Well fuck 'em. They can build over my bones, and I'll have a middle finger one thrust defiantly aloft up through the Tarmac in the Supermarket Car Park. A place of brief respite for a passing Sparrow, at least.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/government-to-press-ahead-with-planning-reforms-2349548.html


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/hands-off-our-land/8754027/Conservatives-given-millions-by-property-developers.html
Resonox
604 posts

Re: Our Sacred Land
Sep 10, 2011, 06:33
Sanctuary wrote:
The Sea Cat wrote:
The battle to save our forests never went away as we know, and now the gauntlet is really down. Our Sacred inheritance. Our land. Our Right.

Let's all get out their as much as we can, individually and on mass.
Even when they force this through, let us all keep laying claim to our ancient living Cultural heritage.

New Houses and Communities for the relentless and recklessly out of control expanding and endlessly consuming population. Yippee. Well fuck 'em. They can build over my bones, and I'll have a middle finger one thrust defiantly aloft up through the Tarmac in the Supermarket Car Park. A place of brief respite for a passing Sparrow, at least.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/government-to-press-ahead-with-planning-reforms-2349548.html


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/hands-off-our-land/8754027/Conservatives-given-millions-by-property-developers.html
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