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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Sep 08, 2011, 13:28
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I'm not against tangents, in fact I love them, it's just a shame that a big deal like the government letting developers off the leash hasn't been properly addressed, here of all places. Rotherwas Ribbon wasn't wrecked by pressure from immigrants but by developers catering to housing demand from rich people and there are likely to be a hell of a lot of prehistoric site losses from now on for exactly the same reason. That ought to be recognised, and fully discussed here, I'd have thought.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Sep 08, 2011, 13:28
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I'm not against tangents, in fact I love them, it's just a shame that a big deal like the government letting developers off the leash hasn't been properly addressed, here of all places. Rotherwas Ribbon wasn't wrecked by pressure from immigrants but by developers catering to housing demand from rich people and there are likely to be a hell of a lot of prehistoric site losses from now on for exactly the same reason. That ought to be recognised, and fully discussed here, I'd have thought.
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Sep 08, 2011, 13:34
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I think he's got 'socialism' and 'communism' mixed up a bit. Never mind eh. Not that I've got experience of these teaching unions though. But as far as I can see from the union I'm mixed up with (oh yes you might have guessed it) it's full of people that actually seem to care about the welfare of other people rather than having the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude of Certain Other Organisations. Can't have people like that teaching our children. I'd much prefer ex-soldiers or something sensible like that (and they're good at the corporal punishment too, and can shout loudly. What more do you need to be a teacher, surely. Don't know how good their Latin is, mind). (thank you for your encouraging words Nigel. We can stand on top of a barrow and threaten them with tomatoes if they get too serious)
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Sep 08, 2011, 13:40
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Sorry, must stop winding people up. (have you noticed though, like your nemesis the foxhunters, do you not find that people with right wing views seem to get really boiling mad? I'm off to see my tory friend this evening funnily enough. Can't wait :)
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Gwass 193 posts |
Sep 08, 2011, 13:40
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I feel it may be a case of not being able to see the wood for the trees. I feel it's almost impossible to argue that there hasn't been a huge lurch to the left in our schools in the last few decades, about the same time that's seen discipline removed and behavioural standards fall off a cliff. But no problem, we'll amicably agree to disagree then. Gwass
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Gwass 193 posts |
Sep 08, 2011, 13:44
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Rhiannon wrote: Sorry, must stop winding people up. (have you noticed though, like your nemesis the foxhunters, do you not find that people with right wing views seem to get really boiling mad? I'm off to see my tory friend this evening funnily enough. Can't wait :) I think I've been quite rational and restained actually. Thought your first response to me with the machine gun like succession of ridiculous questions and dismissive tone could easily be described as boiling mad though, don't you think?
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Gwass 193 posts |
Sep 08, 2011, 13:58
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Rhiannon wrote: I think he's got 'socialism' and 'communism' mixed up a bit. Never mind eh. Not that I've got experience of these teaching unions though. But as far as I can see from the union I'm mixed up with (oh yes you might have guessed it) it's full of people that actually seem to care about the welfare of other people rather than having the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude of Certain Other Organisations. Can't have people like that teaching our children. I'd much prefer ex-soldiers or something sensible like that (and they're good at the corporal punishment too, and can shout loudly. What more do you need to be a teacher, surely. Don't know how good their Latin is, mind). (thank you for your encouraging words Nigel. We can stand on top of a barrow and threaten them with tomatoes if they get too serious) Not really, I made the comment advisedly and in full command of the facts thanks. I did guess it btw! Don't really get your all or nothing stance that if you're against the selfishness of some unions (more an example of the I'm alright jack mentality surely?) When everyone else is making huge concessions yet they throw their toys out the pram causing more suffering to the rest of us; that you're a nasty person with an I'm alright Jack mentality. I merely highlighted the inescapable fact that since the predominance of these views in teachers and guidelines we've seen a huge deterioration in moral standards, politeness, and educational standards despite the fact that we get record exam results year on year yet employers are saying many are unemployable as they don't have a sufficient grasp of numeracy or literacy. Could teachers just be teaching them to succeed in exams to skew the results in their favour? Surely not?! So we'll just accept failure and not try to do anything to improve the dire state we're in cos those nasty tories aren't good people that fit in with our views.
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Gwass 193 posts |
Sep 08, 2011, 14:36
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Squid Tempest wrote: Gwass wrote: nigelswift wrote: Sanctuary wrote: Rhiannon. Any form of fighting in public by gangs of youths impinges on the public to a degree, but the public were not the target in those days like they are now. It is obvious and should not be used to try and prove your point which is not valid. PS I've been in a few staff rooms in my time. You should reserve your dismissive "not valid" stamp of disapproval for the claim that the majority of the occupants are almost communists. That was me and I disagree that it's not a valid point. Also I didn't say that the majority of occupants were almost communist, I said a large number are which is fair comment and I don't feel I need to "reserve" it at all on an open free speech forum. A large number are extremely unionized, the unions links to communism are well know so to say that a large number are verging on communism isn't a false statement at all. Also I feel the 'taking a valid thread off on tangents' may have been aimed at me, if it wasn't then I genuinely apologise but my 1st comment was a perfectly valid and on topic one about the (obvios IMO) link between the extra numbers of people coming here and the need for more houses & threat to our 'sacred land'. It was the reactions to that reasonable point which took us off on tangents. Finally, I feel in the main it's been a polite 50/50 debate with everyone holding their own so there's no need to rush to the defence of anyone as they've been giving as good as they get in a sensible grown up debate. There's been no victimization of anyone so it's not necessary. All the best Gwass Hi Gwass. I must say I think you are way off the mark thinking that a large proportion of teachers are communist. In my opinion it might be better if they were, as Rhiannon sort of said. I feel that the recent violence can be squarely blamed on the Thatcherite ethics of recent decades. Young people are indoctrinated to think only of themselves, and greed and aquistitive consumerism are a direct result of this. And a direct result of greed and aquisitive consumerism was seen in the recent riots, with kids taking what they wanted with no regard for others. If they were bought up to have a more caring sharing world view perhaps things would be different. I do, however, agree that for the most part this debate has been quite reasoned and level headed. It's good to discuss these things in an adult fashion Who knows, maybe we'll all learn something. Hi ST I agree.... about the reasoned debate :-) Isn't blaming Thatcherism missing the point a bit? I think it's more to do with discipline & decency or lack of it. Yes we unfortunately have a materialistic society but that's been the case for a while now, the cause of that morphing into people just taking what they want can be blamed on the removal of responsibility, and discipline. Before if people wanted something they knew they'd have to work for it not go out and smash a window and just take it. Using the Thatcherite argument suggests that everyone brought up since then would steal to get something which isn't the case. It's beacuse responsibility has been subjigated & we have a society where anything goes. I whole heartedly agree with the dangers of our vacuos consumerist society though and feel really strongly against that, and don't think the left has a monopoly on that or being 'nice'. Not sure about being better off if more teachers were communist though, but that's where we differ. I see that as the problem rather than the solution. I think your views while admirable are misguided, looking at the bigger picture this left wing approach is (I feel) damaging becasue it ignores the reality of human nature. Quite nasty, aggressive people are molly coddled and treated with kid gloves when what they need are boundaries and consequences. Like what Cameron said, for too long we've taught reward without effort, actions without consequences and that there are no wrong choices, just different ones with equal value so we don't offend anyone. Prizes for everyone removes the concept of competition and striving to be the best you can. These approaches remove one crucial element from the class room - real life! How can a school be considered to be preparing youngsters for the real world when they remove the elements & forces of the real world?! That's why we've got kids who've never had to work for anything and expect it to be handed to them on a plate! Combine that with an almost contempt for our culture & history where all others are to be celebrated and you have kids not knowing who they are, where they come from & where they fit into the world, let alone having any pride in themselves. I think Thatcherism is part of it, but a small part. We've been a comsumerist society for decades and you didn't get the kind of violent disregard for others, (including those in authority & teachers themselves), and willingness to just take things rather than earn them that we see now. I think that gangster culture; the idolising of material goods, voilence; and subjigation of women and the weak are more to balme for that than thatcherism could ever be. And the fact that there is no right or wrong in the class room or discipline; kids are in control as they know they can't be touched so run riot; creates the vacum which is filled by gangster culture.
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Gwass 193 posts |
Sep 08, 2011, 14:38
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Squid Tempest wrote: Gwass wrote: Could teachers just be teaching them to succeed in exams to skew the results in their favour? Surely not?! And of course it isn't anything to do with the quotas expected to be fullfilled by successive governments, and by a constantly changing curriculum, could it? That would be ridiculous. I agree but that doesn't make it less true. Standards are plumetting either way unfortunately. I think what's needed is a bit of bloody riggour
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Squid Tempest 8761 posts |
Sep 08, 2011, 14:54
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Gwass wrote: nigelswift wrote: Sanctuary wrote: Rhiannon. Any form of fighting in public by gangs of youths impinges on the public to a degree, but the public were not the target in those days like they are now. It is obvious and should not be used to try and prove your point which is not valid. PS I've been in a few staff rooms in my time. You should reserve your dismissive "not valid" stamp of disapproval for the claim that the majority of the occupants are almost communists. That was me and I disagree that it's not a valid point. Also I didn't say that the majority of occupants were almost communist, I said a large number are which is fair comment and I don't feel I need to "reserve" it at all on an open free speech forum. A large number are extremely unionized, the unions links to communism are well know so to say that a large number are verging on communism isn't a false statement at all. Also I feel the 'taking a valid thread off on tangents' may have been aimed at me, if it wasn't then I genuinely apologise but my 1st comment was a perfectly valid and on topic one about the (obvios IMO) link between the extra numbers of people coming here and the need for more houses & threat to our 'sacred land'. It was the reactions to that reasonable point which took us off on tangents. Finally, I feel in the main it's been a polite 50/50 debate with everyone holding their own so there's no need to rush to the defence of anyone as they've been giving as good as they get in a sensible grown up debate. There's been no victimization of anyone so it's not necessary. All the best Gwass Hi Gwass. I must say I think you are way off the mark thinking that a large proportion of teachers are communist. In my opinion it might be better if they were, as Rhiannon sort of said. I feel that the recent violence can be squarely blamed on the Thatcherite ethics of recent decades. Young people are indoctrinated to think only of themselves, and greed and aquistitive consumerism are a direct result of this. And a direct result of greed and aquisitive consumerism was seen in the recent riots, with kids taking what they wanted with no regard for others. If they were bought up to have a more caring sharing world view perhaps things would be different. I do, however, agree that for the most part this debate has been quite reasoned and level headed. It's good to discuss these things in an adult fashion Who knows, maybe we'll all learn something.
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