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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Tidying up offerings |
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gjrk 370 posts |
Edited May 31, 2010, 12:49
May 31, 2010, 12:20
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Sorry. I've only read some bits of this, so I might be repeating. I don't go to a lot of monuments, but I do go to one monument a lot - at least once a week - and the only 'offerings' that I (occasionally) see there are the innards of small animals, or birds - left, I assume, by a full cat. I suspect that these may be more 'authentic to origin' than anything else mentioned here; flowers, pottery, whatever. Good morning Great Moloch ;) Not that I suggest a TMA member should head off on a killing spree.
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revnox 92 posts |
May 31, 2010, 13:04
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juamei wrote: (you need) broader tolerance ... (as you have) deeper prejudices ...(and) negative views ... Our Prehistory belongs to all of us now and all our descendants in the future for as long as they walk the land. No-one has "The Absolute Right" to change it according to their peculiar forays into their inner self. If people have the right to leave 20th century ritual artifacts in a place which has no link in time or space with their beliefs, then I most certainly have the right to remove said artifacts to return the site closer to how its original builders intended. Do you drive a car to these sites? Do you have central heating? Who voted you as a spokes person to decide what has a link and what does not to any artifact? Your post is extremely conceited and shows a solipsistic imperialistic approach to these sites. On the one hand you make use of all of the modern conveniences (and therefore owe a great debt to the earth in general) and on the other hand you then claim that others leaving incongruous items are in the wrong. it's called having your cake and eating it! just because we don't like something does not make it wrong! I personally think all under the pagan banner is a modern construct and those that claim to adhere to it are as foolish as most other deluded followers of all traditions churches and ilks and yet still I claim a freedom of expression is as sacred if not more so than a few dead artifacts.
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faerygirl 412 posts |
May 31, 2010, 16:06
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TheStandingStone wrote: faerygirl wrote: I don't leave anything apart from the fading sound of drums and a didgeridoo So noise pollution is acceptable then? Well its not still there when the next people get there is it? Most of the comments on here have said that biodegradable offerings are fine. Or leaving something and then taking it away later is fine. Now if leaving a pile of mouldy fruit is acceptable then our form of prayer which doesnt hurt anything, damage anything, rot, rust, smell, mark, or last in any way should SURELY be the best form of offering? Like I have said (although people are selecting tiny bits of my comments to pick on rather than quoting the entire thing) I actually LIKE offerings. I think a few coloured ribbons in trees and bundles of flowers and lavender are nice. I dont leave anything myself but if youre even gonna pick on THAT then I cant help but wonder what the hell someone has to do to make some of you lot happy!
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TheStandingStone 218 posts |
May 31, 2010, 16:52
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faerygirl wrote: TheStandingStone wrote: faerygirl wrote: I don't leave anything apart from the fading sound of drums and a didgeridoo So noise pollution is acceptable then? Well its not still there when the next people get there is it? Most of the comments on here have said that biodegradable offerings are fine. Or leaving something and then taking it away later is fine. Now if leaving a pile of mouldy fruit is acceptable then our form of prayer which doesnt hurt anything, damage anything, rot, rust, smell, mark, or last in any way should SURELY be the best form of offering? Like I have said (although people are selecting tiny bits of my comments to pick on rather than quoting the entire thing) I actually LIKE offerings. I think a few coloured ribbons in trees and bundles of flowers and lavender are nice. I dont leave anything myself but if youre even gonna pick on THAT then I cant help but wonder what the hell someone has to do to make some of you lot happy! I quite like rag trees. We have loads here in Ireland next to holy wells...all Catholic though - only seen one offering at a pagan site, it doesn't happen here. I have no real problem with music at sites (again...never encountered it)..was just playing devil's advocate...not trying to offend.
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faerygirl 412 posts |
May 31, 2010, 17:02
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TheStandingStone wrote: faerygirl wrote: TheStandingStone wrote: faerygirl wrote: I don't leave anything apart from the fading sound of drums and a didgeridoo So noise pollution is acceptable then? Well its not still there when the next people get there is it? Most of the comments on here have said that biodegradable offerings are fine. Or leaving something and then taking it away later is fine. Now if leaving a pile of mouldy fruit is acceptable then our form of prayer which doesnt hurt anything, damage anything, rot, rust, smell, mark, or last in any way should SURELY be the best form of offering? Like I have said (although people are selecting tiny bits of my comments to pick on rather than quoting the entire thing) I actually LIKE offerings. I think a few coloured ribbons in trees and bundles of flowers and lavender are nice. I dont leave anything myself but if youre even gonna pick on THAT then I cant help but wonder what the hell someone has to do to make some of you lot happy! I quite like rag trees. We have loads here in Ireland next to holy wells...all Catholic though - only seen one offering at a pagan site, it doesn't happen here. I have no real problem with music at sites (again...never encountered it)..was just playing devil's advocate...not trying to offend. Sorry for the outburst. I wasnt really all that offended but my rant sounded worse than it was intended! The kids playing loud music from their mobile phones at Castlerigg left something to be desired. It wasn't even the Levellers!
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TheStandingStone 218 posts |
May 31, 2010, 17:07
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faerygirl wrote: TheStandingStone wrote: faerygirl wrote: TheStandingStone wrote: faerygirl wrote: I don't leave anything apart from the fading sound of drums and a didgeridoo So noise pollution is acceptable then? Well its not still there when the next people get there is it? Most of the comments on here have said that biodegradable offerings are fine. Or leaving something and then taking it away later is fine. Now if leaving a pile of mouldy fruit is acceptable then our form of prayer which doesnt hurt anything, damage anything, rot, rust, smell, mark, or last in any way should SURELY be the best form of offering? Like I have said (although people are selecting tiny bits of my comments to pick on rather than quoting the entire thing) I actually LIKE offerings. I think a few coloured ribbons in trees and bundles of flowers and lavender are nice. I dont leave anything myself but if youre even gonna pick on THAT then I cant help but wonder what the hell someone has to do to make some of you lot happy! I quite like rag trees. We have loads here in Ireland next to holy wells...all Catholic though - only seen one offering at a pagan site, it doesn't happen here. I have no real problem with music at sites (again...never encountered it)..was just playing devil's advocate...not trying to offend. Sorry for the outburst. I wasnt really all that offended but my rant sounded worse than it was intended! The kids playing loud music from their mobile phones at Castlerigg left something to be desired. It wasn't even the Levellers! The difference at ancient sites between Ireland and Britain is astonishing...I usually have the places to myself here. In Britain there are always people at sites I've been to...apart from Stanton Harcourt where I shared the site with sea gulls and rabbits. Kids playing music would annoy me I think...there would be slappings handed out.
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faerygirl 412 posts |
May 31, 2010, 17:24
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To be fair you do go sometimes and there are people about, but MOST of the places I have been were deserted. I didn't see another soul the entire time I was in Scotland. Although, it was January and there was about 2 foot of snow! Capel Garmon, Moel-ty-Uchaf, Sunkenkirk, Druids Circle, Middlebarrow, Nine Stones Close, WKLB, Belas Knap, Arbor Low, Doll Tor, all empty and beautiful. Only ever seen "crowds" at Castlerigg and Stonehenge. Even Avebury is really quiet on a week day! I guess if you frequent these places as much as we all do then there will be quiet days and busy days. And obviously some sites get so few visitors that the chance of seeing someone there is pretty slim :)
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juamei 2013 posts |
Edited May 31, 2010, 18:31
May 31, 2010, 18:27
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revnox wrote: Freedom of speech! freedom of expression! whether intellectually or spiritually are the ground rocks of any reasonable society! I've quoted you from elsewhere as it pertinently leads me to the only answer I need as opposed to your rant above which was somewhat off topic, rude and missing the point. Strange thing freedom of expression, turns out mine is just as valid as everyone else. So they leave it, I remove it! I don't give a fuck if that annoys anyone because they clearly don't give a fuck that stuff being left at prehistoric sites annoys me! Cheers
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
May 31, 2010, 19:06
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juamei wrote: revnox wrote: Freedom of speech! freedom of expression! whether intellectually or spiritually are the ground rocks of any reasonable society! I've quoted you from elsewhere as it pertinently leads me to the only answer I need as opposed to your rant above which was somewhat off topic, rude and missing the point. Strange thing freedom of expression, turns out mine is just as valid as everyone else. So they leave it, I remove it! I don't give a fuck if that annoys anyone because they clearly don't give a fuck that stuff being left at prehistoric sites annoys me! Cheers Think you just cleared up what was becoming more than a little muddied - well said Mr j.
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revnox 92 posts |
May 31, 2010, 19:23
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sorry if i was rude, funny we don't always realise how things may be read in the absence of facial expression and tone etc. All that said, I still feel that individuals expression of devotion, love, gratitude etc are as valid (if not more so) than disdain, anger dismissal and hatred. One lifts us up, however little and the other divides us. If there is no damage to the site nor it's environment then we should like compassionate adults put aside our personal likes and dislikes and live and let live.
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