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Myths, truths and theories - Stonehenge
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megadread
1202 posts

Re: Myths, truths and theories - Stonehenge
Sep 01, 2010, 22:26
mountainman wrote:
Ah, this terrible term "bluestone"!! From all the work done by Rob Ixer, Richard bevins, Olwen Williams-Thorpe and many others over the past 20 years, there is now no doubt that there are at least 20 and maybe as many as 30 different stone types (and that means locations as well) represented in the "Bluestone" collection -- stones, chips, flakes and monoliths of all shapes and sizes -- at Stonehenge and in the broader neighbourhood. There are spotted dolerites, unspotted dolerites, ashes, shales, rhyolites, limestones, sandstones etc etc...... in my book they are ALL glacial erratics, maybe even including some of the sarsens, some of which could also have come from the west. This looks to me like a litter or scatter of stones spread over a wide area. There is (as yet) no sign of anything we might call a moraine, but glaciers don't always leave moraines where we would like them to be -- to the best of my knowledge, there is nothing anywhere in the UK that could be designated as a moraine marking the outermost extent of the Anglian ice that affected the UK around 450,000 years ago.

To those who are still inclined towards the human transport theory, and would like to think that our ancestors hauled stones from up to 30 different locations all the way to Stonehenge, why were all of these locations in the west? Why were there none thought to be suitable in the south, north or east? My answer is that they simply collected up whatever stones they could find, many of which happen to have been brought into the area by the Irish Sea Glacier.


Wot he said. : )
cerrig
184 posts

Re: Myths, truths and theories - Stonehenge
Sep 01, 2010, 23:22
The Altar stone , according to the latest info, came from the Brecon Beacons, and not Pembrokeshire as originally thought. This was one of those facts that were made to fit the sea route theory. It was thought to have come from Milford Haven, the embarcation point for the crafts that carried the Bluestones.
As it probably comes from the Senni valley south west of Brecon,there is a problem with both the sea route and the Glacier theory as far as the Altar stone is concerned. The Senni valley glacier flowed north, not south east to Somerset.
So, how did it get to Stonehenge.
Resonox
604 posts

Re: Myths, truths and theories - Stonehenge
Sep 02, 2010, 05:38
I put forward the theory(a long time ago in a forum far far away)that as the winters in times gone past were more severe...the hunting would be thin so food would've been previously stored during the appropriate season. Rather than have the men sit around doing nothing(can see the looks on the faces of the women with those hulking brutes laying about under their feet...it's reflected in the face of modern woman every time she tries to hoover around a man watching telly today......) they went and gathered the stones from afar... the stones were transported over snowy wastes by sled(easier than by dry land or sea) as a form of community service and tribal bonding and the stones would be needed to replace wood as a more permanent edifice...several birds killed with one stone(NPI)...the men had something to do,wooden "henges" got replacement building materials and tribal morale was sustained.
Perhaps there was some form of barter involved..hunters swapped food with quarriers???
Only an idea.
Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4741 posts

Re: Myths, truths and theories - Stonehenge
Sep 02, 2010, 06:44
Resonox wrote:
I put forward the theory(a long time ago in a forum far far away)that as the winters in times gone past were more severe...the hunting would be thin so food would've been previously stored during the appropriate season. Rather than have the men sit around doing nothing(can see the looks on the faces of the women with those hulking brutes laying about under their feet...it's reflected in the face of modern woman every time she tries to hoover around a man watching telly today......) they went and gathered the stones from afar... the stones were transported over snowy wastes by sled(easier than by dry land or sea) as a form of community service and tribal bonding and the stones would be needed to replace wood as a more permanent edifice...several birds killed with one stone(NPI)...the men had something to do,wooden "henges" got replacement building materials and tribal morale was sustained.
Perhaps there was some form of barter involved..hunters swapped food with quarriers???
Only an idea.


All fuel added to an ever-increasing fire Resonox! Somewhere amongst all the ideas the truth lies hidden but is probably a combination of sorts of many of those ideas. In the meantime ideas seem to change with the weather don't they with one one person (archo or otherwise) putting a theory forward only to have the next one knock it down!!
mountainman
90 posts

Re: Myths, truths and theories - Stonehenge
Sep 02, 2010, 09:16
The Altar Stone? Just another erratic, I reckon -- this time from the Brecon Beacons, according to Rob Ixer and Richard Bevins.
mountainman
90 posts

Re: Myths, truths and theories - Stonehenge
Sep 02, 2010, 09:51
cerrig wrote:
The Altar stone , according to the latest info, came from the Brecon Beacons, and not Pembrokeshire as originally thought. This was one of those facts that were made to fit the sea route theory. It was thought to have come from Milford Haven, the embarcation point for the crafts that carried the Bluestones.
As it probably comes from the Senni valley south west of Brecon,there is a problem with both the sea route and the Glacier theory as far as the Altar stone is concerned. The Senni valley glacier flowed north, not south east to Somerset.
So, how did it get to Stonehenge.


The geologists haven't been that specific about the location. The Senni glacier flowed north? Well, it might have done for a very short time, but for most of the time, during the big glaciations, the ice from this part of mid Wales was flowing south, towards the Bristol Channel. By the way, the Senni Beds are not just in the Senni Valley -- they outcrop over a wide area including the lower Towy Valley.

I think the Altar Stone was carried first by a tributary glacier of the Irish Sea Glacier flowing south, then picked up and moved east by the main ice stream. ALL in one glaciation? Maybe. But maybe over the course of several glacial episodes.
cerrig
184 posts

Re: Myths, truths and theories - Stonehenge
Sep 02, 2010, 15:40
If the Altar stone was glaciated there should be more like it lying around, but there doesn't seem to be much evidence of that, a bit like the bluestones.
Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4741 posts

Re: Myths, truths and theories - Stonehenge
Sep 02, 2010, 16:03
cerrig wrote:
If the Altar stone was glaciated there should be more like it lying around, but there doesn't seem to be much evidence of that, a bit like the bluestones.


I understand the basics of Glacial flow but would the stones ONLY ever show themselves on the surface or can they be lying hidden just underground after all those years?
I'll go and sit down in a shady spot now!
cerrig
184 posts

Re: Myths, truths and theories - Stonehenge
Sep 02, 2010, 17:33
mountainman wrote:
I agree. The surface stones will be like the tip of the iceberg -- I wouldn't mind betting that there are hundreds if not thousands more "bluestones" lurking in ancient deposits in valleys all over Wilts and Somerset. The surface ones around Stonehenge were collected up, because the builders had a job to do.


You may be right, but is there any evidence to support this, or indeed, evidence of any stone from south Wales being found in western England.
nigelswift
8024 posts

Re: Myths, truths and theories - Stonehenge
Sep 02, 2010, 17:37
mountainman wrote:
The surface stones will be like the tip of the iceberg -- I wouldn't mind betting that there are hundreds if not thousands more "bluestones" lurking in ancient deposits in valleys all over Wilts and Somerset.


Well of course, finding some would be a huge boost to your theory. But for now, the fact that lots of stray sarsens have been found but no bluestones doesn't do much for it.
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