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Unsung Forum » New Scott Walker album out December 3rd |
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IanB 6761 posts |
Sep 25, 2012, 11:15
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keith a wrote: Hunter T Wolfe wrote: I'm excited. I thought The Drift and Tilt were both excellent, original, challenging pieces of work in their own right. And while I broadly get what you're saying, Ian, I don't particularly see the point in randomly singling Scott Walker out in order to compare him unfavourably to a randomly chosen important avant garde composer from a previous generation. He may not measure up, but so what? Completely different circumstances and all that. Not sure about the album title though. Is it a concept album about rushed DIY in East Germany? Scott was a painter and decorator for a while during his "wilderness years", wasn't he? I agree, Hunter. TBH I don't know the artists he's being compared to so I can't comment on their merits or otherwise, but SW is one of THE greats AFAIC (and how fascinating was that documentary?). I might not play the latter-day records that often but I'm always interested to hear what he's up to - a mere 6 years after the last one, too! I like the title myself though. More playful than one might expect from Scott. PS Surely Climate... was 28 years ago, not 38. Quite so. Long enough though!
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Sep 25, 2012, 20:09
Sep 25, 2012, 11:26
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Hunter T Wolfe wrote: I'm excited. I thought The Drift and Tilt were both excellent, original, challenging pieces of work in their own right. And while I broadly get what you're saying, Ian, I don't particularly see the point in randomly singling Scott Walker out in order to compare him unfavourably to a randomly chosen important avant garde composer from a previous generation. He may not measure up, but so what? Completely different circumstances and all that. No worries. See my reply above. I picked Berg very particularly because of his choice of subject matter and the time in which he was composing. I think rock music gets in a mess when it tries to invade territory that belongs to a different kind of discipline. I think "classical music" has the same problem when stretching in the other direction. Taking influence from other kinds of music is one thing but staking your ground out in someone else's territory is tricky as it means you are going to get held to an altogther different standard. It's like when sprinters try and become rugby league players or whatever. It just doesn't quite work out because whatever unique skills you have to offer the other people doing it have made it their life's work. It's in their DNA almost. Jason Pierce's improv and guitar loops records / performances have a similar effect on me. I just don't believe it. This is where Macca, Roger Waters and others have come a cropper. Interestingly Jon Lord's passing and the legacy of his Concerto for Group and Orchestra seemed to get much more sympathetic coverage from the classical media than from their rock peers. Maybe because he worked over time to intergrate rather than impose. With anything like this it either hits your visceral hot spots or it doesn't. So I am not presenting this a definitive critique. I just don't see this facet of his music having much of an extended life or purpose.
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Moon Cat 9577 posts |
Sep 25, 2012, 19:07
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Lawrence wrote: What's worse, complicated music that's difficult for most people to listen to or just a crap pop band that can't even do their harmonies right? That often ends up sounding like the same thing! Discordant Boyband pop...it's the new noise-core! 8^)
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Daniel 277 posts |
Sep 25, 2012, 19:59
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Like many here, I'm a fan of his old albums, but his works from Tilt onwards are disappointing to me. There's nothing in them that I look for, unfortunately. The loud silences, the staccato, the harsh drumming and even his wonderful croon seems inadequate in such a context. No offense but maybe too complicated for rock/pop music, and maybe too simple to be cutting edge, avant-garde or experimental. IMHO his influence has been remarkable but not now with his latest works. Of course I think it's important that SW is still active and continue releasing albums but not as a relevant artist for my taste these days.
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Lawrence 9547 posts |
Sep 25, 2012, 20:37
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And not even I like it. LOL! Wooo oo-oo oo-oo oo-oo
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Lawrence 9547 posts |
Sep 25, 2012, 20:43
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Ah, I know what you mean. Truth is, it seems that as bad as today's pop is, it's lyrically banal as well. Either sentimental drivel of the worst kind or else it's not about much of anything besides maybe hanging out at the mall. I'd kill for someone new out of nowhere to make something as equal to Lou Reed's Berlin, for example. A very musical tour-De-force with a really grim story line -- probably what you were pertaining to?
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Dog 3000 4611 posts |
Sep 26, 2012, 03:10
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Respectfully, I don't get what you are on about. Scott Walker's not as good as some classical guy I've never heard because he didn't personally suffer through WWI? Well, I know about this dead guy who was tortured by Ivan The Terrible that you are just gonna love! ;-) Scott's story is interesting, but it's the music I keep coming back to. I see the last 3 albums as each being a step beyond the last -- "Tilt" is pretty dull compared to "The Drift" (I've never been a "Tilt" fan really), and "Climate of Hunter" sounds like a Dire Straits album compared to either of those. Granted, he'll probably never equal "The Electrician" or "Scott 2-3-4" again, but "The Drift" makes me think he could. Let's compare apples to apples: aside from Neil Young, Scott Walker is the only "sixties guy" who still makes music that is "relevant". (Though McCartney I think is still trying at least . . . )
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HI DEN 814 posts |
Sep 26, 2012, 05:14
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You should write The Rock N' Roll Book Of Rules Ian. Alban Berg, how posh... Things change you know. You don't have to put an artist into a box in order to appreciate his/her art. Even, what is 'classical' music these days. Most of the current stuff i've heard sounds like utter dry wank to my ears.. Classical, hah! P.s: I'm not probably gonna buy that, but i definitely at least wanna listen through it.
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Lawrence 9547 posts |
Sep 26, 2012, 05:54
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Hmmm. I've lately been in conflict with a friend regarding Vatican Shadow. He seems to think Vatican Shadow are shallow and quaint. I actually find it to be good electronic music. Seems there's always disagreement as far as music goes...
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Hunter T Wolfe 1705 posts |
Sep 26, 2012, 12:17
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IanB wrote: Hunter T Wolfe wrote: I'm excited. I thought The Drift and Tilt were both excellent, original, challenging pieces of work in their own right. And while I broadly get what you're saying, Ian, I don't particularly see the point in randomly singling Scott Walker out in order to compare him unfavourably to a randomly chosen important avant garde composer from a previous generation. He may not measure up, but so what? Completely different circumstances and all that. No worries. See my reply above. I picked Berg very particularly because of his choice of subject matter and the time in which he was composing. I think rock music gets in a mess when it tries to invade territory that belongs to a different kind of discipline. I think "classical music" has the same problem when stretching in the other direction. Taking influence from other kinds of music is one thing but staking your ground out in someone else's territory is tricky as it means you are going to get held to an altogther different standard. It's like when sprinters try and become rugby league players or whatever. It just doesn't quite work out because whatever unique skills you have to offer the other people doing it have made it their life's work. It's in their DNA almost. Jason Pierce's improv and guitar loops records / performances have a similar effect on me. I just don't believe it. This is where Macca, Roger Waters and others have come a cropper. Interestingly Jon Lord's passing and the legacy of his Concerto for Group and Orchestra seemed to get much more sympathetic coverage from the classical media than from their rock peers. Maybe because he worked over time to intergrate rather than impose. With anything like this it either hits your visceral hot spots or it doesn't. So I am not presenting this a definitive critique. I just don't see this facet of his music having much of an extended life or purpose. I understand your argument a bit more now. I think I dislike and distrust most pseudo-classical prog rock for similar reasons. Having said that, I have to admit that I really haven't listened to enough classical music, and certainly not the more experimental composers, to really place Scott's recent albums in context. I just like them for what they are, and lyrically and musically they do seem to have a lot to say about contemporary geopolitics and how we got there. As you say, ultimately it either hits your visceral hot spots or it doesn't- and it does for me! Also, can Scott be said to be making 'rock' music anymore? Do the territorial boundaries between rock, jazz, avant-garde, classical even mean anything these days, when talking about the kind of challenging, often dissonant music that many come to this site to discuss? I also think that Scott gets a rougher ride exactly because he once made such great pop and neo-pop albums, and now he's doing something completely different. You really can't compare what he's done since the mid-nineties to his sixties work- which I also love, but he's never going back there. I think the likes of Robert Fripp or Peter Hammill get an easier ride because they've always made "difficult" music.
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