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IanB 6761 posts |
Feb 26, 2010, 13:29
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The Sea Cat wrote: IanB wrote: Moon Cat wrote: That's been one of my psychic obstacles into getting into Zappa, although I've liked most of what I've heard. I don't mind taking the piss but I draw the line at being sneered at and also I have to wonder, why play it if it's so 'beneath' you? Still, ultimately I'm open to hearing more. That's what pissed me off about Jon Anderson - it's the "I shouldn't have to be here doing this for you assholes" thing. I see that a lot from sidemen/women who think they should be the star of the show but I really resent paying money out for tickets only to be treated like a fool by the beneficiary. That said "Boulez Plays Zappa" and "The Yellow Shark" are great recordings of modern classical music in their own right - quite seperate from FZ's whole "Libertarian of Rock" shtick. And I DO like a lot of his rock recordings and his whole Carolos-Santana-Discovers-Serialism guitar style can be pretty thrilling at times. Jon Anderson? What's the story there. I always thought he seemed a reasonable enough guy who was replaced by a tribute artist because he was in poor health. Last few times I have seen them live (since the 96 comeback) there has been more than a bit of the "I can't take this shit seriosusly" attitude in his stage manner and patter. I don't know whether that is because it's London and he thinks we are all covert NME writers out to give him and his band a pasting or whether it is just his general demeanour. |
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handofdave 3515 posts |
Feb 26, 2010, 13:34
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IanB wrote: I just think his music is way too clenched and uptight and lacking in swing but as a second tier classical composer he was pretty deent I think. Yep. Conceptually and structurally his more 'classical' stuff is very unsettling and jagged. Ironically, it's where he's just free-playing on the guitar that he loosens up and forgets how brilliant he is, if ya know what I mean. |
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Feb 26, 2010, 13:52
Feb 26, 2010, 13:52
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handofdave wrote: IanB wrote: I just think his music is way too clenched and uptight and lacking in swing but as a second tier classical composer he was pretty deent I think. Yep. Conceptually and structurally his more 'classical' stuff is very unsettling and jagged. Ironically, it's where he's just free-playing on the guitar that he loosens up and forgets how brilliant he is, if ya know what I mean. Totally! Artists and writers whose first thought is to let the world know how very clever they are tend to make fairly shitty art. |
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handofdave 3515 posts |
Feb 26, 2010, 14:05
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IanB wrote: handofdave wrote: IanB wrote: I just think his music is way too clenched and uptight and lacking in swing but as a second tier classical composer he was pretty deent I think. Yep. Conceptually and structurally his more 'classical' stuff is very unsettling and jagged. Ironically, it's where he's just free-playing on the guitar that he loosens up and forgets how brilliant he is, if ya know what I mean. Totally! Artists and writers whose first thought is to let the world know how very clever they are tend to make fairly shitty art. It's the over-self-analyzing that kills it. The more labored something is, the more it suffers. That's why the best stuff often emerges without a lot of editing and tinkering and even THINKING, tho of course not always. The phenomenon of 'letting the spirit take you' is where things really get interesting in my opinion... tapping into the pure stream of creative energy. And in fact it's a process that a lot of music and art starts with- sometimes ends with. Some of the most interesting stuff happens when one isn't consciously attempting to do something interesting. |
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Feb 26, 2010, 16:06
Feb 26, 2010, 16:02
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handofdave wrote: IanB wrote: handofdave wrote: IanB wrote: I just think his music is way too clenched and uptight and lacking in swing but as a second tier classical composer he was pretty deent I think. Yep. Conceptually and structurally his more 'classical' stuff is very unsettling and jagged. Ironically, it's where he's just free-playing on the guitar that he loosens up and forgets how brilliant he is, if ya know what I mean. Totally! Artists and writers whose first thought is to let the world know how very clever they are tend to make fairly shitty art. It's the over-self-analyzing that kills it. The more labored something is, the more it suffers. That's why the best stuff often emerges without a lot of editing and tinkering and even THINKING, tho of course not always. The phenomenon of 'letting the spirit take you' is where things really get interesting in my opinion... tapping into the pure stream of creative energy. And in fact it's a process that a lot of music and art starts with- sometimes ends with. Some of the most interesting stuff happens when one isn't consciously attempting to do something interesting. As a confirmed believer in improvisation and tapping into that sub-conscious / hyper-conscious world of instinct and creative energy I can but agree with you. Of course it is handy to have some technique up your sleeve so you can bring more of your un-ideas to life but too much tehcnique and you are in danger of just rehashing stuff you have played before in the practice room. I think the trick is to not get comfortable in overly safe places and "stock" idioms. Cutting the moorings with your own musical past and a life of listening is the hard part. Then having someone who isn't playing the music edit that music into a consumable format. Like an editor if you will.
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The Sea Cat 3608 posts |
Feb 26, 2010, 16:24
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| Nuff said. Never seen them live and I don't want to. A friend of mine saw the recent thing with the French Canadian stand-in and she thought it was pretty dire and all a bit pointless really. | |
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Feb 26, 2010, 18:18
Feb 26, 2010, 16:55
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The Sea Cat wrote: Nuff said. Never seen them live and I don't want to. A friend of mine saw the recent thing with the French Canadian stand-in and she thought it was pretty dire and all a bit pointless really. Shame you've never seen them. 75 - 78 they were fantastic. The second half (ie the night time portion) of the QPR show from 75 is well worth seeing if you want a flavour of their thing at that time. Great / mad stage set and some very intense playing. It's really innocent in many ways and the fact that nothing is sequenced or being done to a click is really refreshing. It never came out on DVD AFAIK but I am sure some kind fan is offering it for free download somewhere. |
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The Sea Cat 3608 posts |
Feb 26, 2010, 18:13
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IanB wrote: The Sea Cat wrote: Nuff said. Never seen them live and I don't want to. A friend of mine saw the recent thing with the French Canadian stand-in and she thought it was pretty dire and all a bit pointless really. Shame you've never seen them. 75 - 78 they were fantastic. The second half (ie the night time portion) of the QPR show from 76 is well worth seeing if you want a flavour of their thing at that time. Great / mad stage set and some very intense playing. It's really innocent in many ways and the fact that nothing is sequenced or being done to a click is really refreshing. It never came out on DVD AFAIK but I am sure some kind fan is offering it for free download somewhere. I was too young and I would only want to have heard them in their classic period when you did. Daft as it is, I'm not the greatest fan of live albums ( although a select few are something else ) is Yessongs worth checking out, quality wise ? |
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Feb 26, 2010, 18:27
Feb 26, 2010, 18:21
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The Sea Cat wrote: IanB wrote: The Sea Cat wrote: Nuff said. Never seen them live and I don't want to. A friend of mine saw the recent thing with the French Canadian stand-in and she thought it was pretty dire and all a bit pointless really. Shame you've never seen them. 75 - 78 they were fantastic. The second half (ie the night time portion) of the QPR show from 76 is well worth seeing if you want a flavour of their thing at that time. Great / mad stage set and some very intense playing. It's really innocent in many ways and the fact that nothing is sequenced or being done to a click is really refreshing. It never came out on DVD AFAIK but I am sure some kind fan is offering it for free download somewhere. I was too young and I would only want to have heard them in their classic period when you did. Daft as it is, I'm not the greatest fan of live albums ( although a select few are something else ) is Yessongs worth checking out, quality wise ? The QPR thing is a video so the lack of audio quality is counter balanced by the fact that you can see them struggling with this mad music and their mad trousers. I am biased towards Yessongs. Probbaly my favoutire pre-Punk record at the time and still a big favourite. They sound much more like a rock band than on the studio albums and the clarity is what you would expect for a 72/73 live album but the violence and beauty of the playing (especially Howe and Squire) is fantastic. Here they are at QPR in Mahavishnu mode http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9sY_UMMewE&feature=related I love how small the stage is for a stadium gig. |
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The Sea Cat 3608 posts |
Edited Feb 26, 2010, 19:07
Feb 26, 2010, 19:05
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Thanks Ian. Great link as well.
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